White Texan Military Veteran goes on Shooting Rampage

[Ben Kenobi]

Dude, you are assuming intent based on the location of the incident.

If he wanted to kill his inlaws, why didn't he just go to their house. Why kill 27 other people who were innocent bystanders. Why not simply call it off and try another time knowing that his inlaws weren't there in the church that day.

That's why I don't think it had anything to do with the inlaws. I think it had everything to do with bagging him some Christians. He probably blamed Christians for all the problems, including beating the **** out of his wife, getting canned out of the air force, rather than blaming himself for his own ****ty life.

Easier to blame the enemy when you're raging against God.

That being said, I don't see any evidence that he was mentally ill. Just because you kill someone doesn't necessarily mean you suffer from a mental illness. Sometimes people kill other people because they want to kill other people. Blaming it on brain chemistry negates culpability and avoids the true problems here.

If he shot up a mosque, you'd be calling him an Islamophobe. Your brain can't wrap itself around the concept that society has sufficiently changed that Christians are now being targeted.

[-Jrabbit]

1. I totally agree that it is possible the shooter blamed that particular church, or maybe Christians in general, for his lot in life. So it's certainly possible that he made a clear decision to go there and take down as many people as he could.
2. You suggestion that one man's twisted thought process is evidence that "society" is now targeting Christians is self-serving victim-carding. The Christian right largely controls the wheels of government, as well you know. Especially in Texas. "A target who happens to be Christian" is not necessarily "a targeted Christian."
4a. Mental illness is not just "brain chemistry." This is a tragically naive view.
4b. Like physical afflictions, sexuality, autism, and many other human conditions, mental health exists across a spectrum. Being mentally ill does not mean he isn't culpable.

Look at your last paragraph. "If HE shot up a mosque" is about ONE PERSON.
Your attempt to then generalize that case to show that "SOCIETY has changed" is a classic miscarriage of logic.

This was one lone loser with a big gun. You might call him a Christianophobe if you want, but it doesn't say squat about society. Why? Because he was atheist - which means despising ALL religions. But in this country, the vast majority of churches are Christian. Lucky you!

If you want to whine about how hard it is to be a fundamentalist Christian in this country, prepare to be laughed at, just for the sheer illogic and downright surrealism of the single most privileged socioreligious force in the USA playing the victim card.

[Berzerker]

looks like the guy was a 'militant atheist', but he started shooting before entering the church so he may not have known if the in-laws were there

[ricketyclik]

If he hasn't shown any remorse for what he's done does it really need to be proven to you that he Isn't a Christian?

Are you saying you're not a Christian Kid?

[I AM MOBIUS]

He got in the air force. Idk how you have decided on his mental health.

I think the truly chilling thing is that Kid and Ben are challenging whether this guy had mental health issues - like going into a church and murdering 20 odd people is somehow a normal thing to do...

Hey Kid, how many times have you fantasised about murdering your ex? What gun have you decided to do it with, a simple easy to hide handgun - or do you want to go full auto on her ass!?

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[ricketyclik]

I think the truly chilling thing is that Kid and Ben are challenging whether this guy had mental health issues - like going into a church and murdering 20 odd people is somehow a normal thing to do...

I agree. He was clearly deranged. Trying to analyse his logic is futile.

[ricketyclik]

Much like trying to analyse, let alone rebuff, Ben and Kid's logic.

[The Mad Monk]

[Kidlicious]

I agree. He was clearly deranged. Trying to analyse his logic is futile.

1) You aren't trained in psychology. You just play one on the internet.

2) There is no way to tell what mental illness such a person may have had.

3) You have admitted on this website to lying in order to promote your agenda.

4) It doesn't matter if he was deranged. I assume that an atheist is deranged simply because they believe that there is no God.

[ricketyclik]

He was able to do something, at least. However, if neither of them had had a gun...

X-post.

[ricketyclik]

1) You aren't trained in psychology. You just play one on the internet.

2) There is no way to tell what mental illness such a person may have had.

3) You have admitted on this website to lying in order to promote your agenda.

4) It doesn't matter if he was deranged. I assume that an atheist is deranged simply because they believe that there is no God.

Dick****.

[Kidlicious]

I think the truly chilling thing is that Kid and Ben are challenging whether this guy had mental health issues - like going into a church and murdering 20 odd people is somehow a normal thing to do...

Hey Kid, how many times have you fantasised about murdering your ex? What gun have you decided to do it with, a simple easy to hide handgun - or do you want to go full auto on her ass!?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Another atheist without a moral compass. SHOCKED I TELL YOU!

[Meticulous Man]

RIP

[Ben Kenobi]

I think the truly chilling thing is that Kid and Ben are challenging whether this guy had mental health issues - like going into a church and murdering 20 odd people is somehow a normal thing to do...

If he had normal brain chemistry then he doesn't have a mental illness. That he chose to murder people should be chilling.

[Ben Kenobi]

1. I totally agree that it is possible the shooter blamed that particular church, or maybe Christians in general, for his lot in life. So it's certainly possible that he made a clear decision to go there and take down as many people as he could.

Indeed. I don't see the 'domestic issues' as a convincing justification for gunning down 27 innocents.

2. You suggestion that one man's twisted thought process is evidence that "society" is now targeting Christians is self-serving victim-carding.

Again, this is evidence that Christians are being targetted. It's not even the only shooting this year of Christians in a Christian church in America. It's the third one. How many times does a church have to get shot up before you're convinced that things have changed in America? We see it elsewhere as well, and it's common in many parts of the world to see Christian churches bombed and attacked. What hasn't been common until this year is the consistant targetting of Christians in America. That is the change. You can deny all the evidence all you like, but the evidence is mounting that Christians are being targetted.

Prudent Christians are going back to the old ways when we had to protect our congregations. We'll probably also start seeing all the Orders come back again.

The Christian right largely controls the wheels of government

Do you believe that Trump is a member of the 'Christian right'?

The Christian Right has never been in power. Democrats controlled congress from the time of FDR onwards. So unless you're talking about the Clinton years (when Christians weren't in power), or the Bush years (where things were divided). It has consistently been a minority at least in the halls of power in the 20th century.

4a. Mental illness is not just "brain chemistry." This is a tragically naive view.

By definition mental illness is some form of abnormal brain chemistry. Until we see evidence of his actual brain chemistry then you have zero evidence to confirm your statement that he is mentally ill. I've asked for evidence and you've provided nothing in the form of a diagnosis.

We do know that the militant Atheist had serious and longstanding anger issues. That by and of itself is not enough to establish a diagnosis of mental illneess.

Look at your last paragraph. "If HE shot up a mosque" is about ONE PERSON.

Again, my point stands. Had this guy shot up a mosque you'd consider him an Islamaphobe.

Your attempt to then generalize that case to show that "SOCIETY has changed" is a classic miscarriage of logic.

It speaks volumes about you and your mindset. That you're ranting on about the "Christian Right" proves my case better than anything I could say. You're still fighting Reagan and he was in the 80s, and the moral majority of Falwell. Things have changed from the 80s, which was 30 years ago, JR. Society has changed too. This shooting is just one example as to how society itself has changed since the 80s.

This was one lone loser with a big gun. You might call him a Christianophobe if you want, but it doesn't say squat about society. Why? Because he was atheist - which means despising ALL religions. But in this country, the vast majority of churches are Christian. Lucky you!

Well then. Why didn't he shoot up a mosque if he was anti-all religions. He was a militant athiest and in America that pretty much exclusively means anti-Christian.

If you want to whine about how hard it is to be a fundamentalist Christian in this country, prepare to be laughed at, just for the sheer illogic and downright surrealism of the single most privileged socioreligious force in the USA playing the victim card.

Privileged, eh. That's not true for wide swathes of the country. And certainly not in Cook county or Illinois. Maybe someone who isn't familiar with America would buy your bull****, but anyone who has lived there and has some knowledge of what the United States actually is, will not.

You're still stuck in the 80s railing against Falwell. The world has changed and is changing very quickly. You're fighting yesterday's problems that are long gone.

[-Jrabbit]

Ben, I'm not "railing" against anyone. Stop putting words in my mouth and deciding what I think/believe. No one here has enough knowledge of the shooter to make definitive statements. Yet you persist in blathering that atheism somehow equals militant anti-Christianity. In the real world, all it means is "doesn't believe there's a god." But hey, "lone loser" doesn't fit your narrative, so you decide it's part of a trend/conspiracy, apparently because you have a deep-seated need to believe so. Again, this was one angry guy. Certainly not a movement.

As far as being "targeted," you stated there have been 3 shooting attacks on Christian churches this year. That's out of an estimated 300,000 Christian churches nationwide. Mathematically, that is still in the area of background noise.

And you clearly know nothing about religion in Illinois. All you seem to know is that there are a lot of Democrats, which apparently you believe is inherently anti-Christian. What a crock! Even in Cook County, Christianity is solidly in the majority. And statewide, Illinois is a virtual match for national figures. Plenty of Dems are evangelicals, Catholics, etc. - as well you know. But conflating religion and politics is required to serve your "we're being oppressed" narrative, so I'm not surprised at your simple-minded, thoroughly flawed "analysis."

Here, have some facts:

USA religions,, Pew Research, 2017
Christian faiths - 70.6% (Evangelical 25.4%, Catholic 20.8, mainline 14.7, etc)
Non-Christian faiths - 5.9% (Jewish 1.9%, others all under 1%)
Unaffiliated (religious "none" - 22.8% (nothing in particular 15.8%, agnostic 4%, atheist 3.1%)

Illinois religions, Pew Research, 2017
Christian faiths - 71% (Catholic 28%, Evangelical 20%, mainline 16%, black 7%; 1% or less: Orthodox, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, other)
Non-Christian faiths - 6% (Jewish 2%, Muslim 1%, Buddhist 1%, Hindu 1%, other faiths 1%)
Unaffiliated (religious "none") - 22% (nothing in particular 15%, agnostic 4%, atheist 3%)

Cook County religions, 2010 census
Christian faiths - 53.6% (Catholic 37.5%, Evangelical Protestant 8.3%, mainline Protestant 3.9%, black Protestant 2.9%, Orthodox 1%)
Other religions - 6% (Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, other)
No declared religion - 40.4% (includes unaffiliated religious, agnostic, atheist)

Amazing how ~70% of the population can be so utterly dominated by a leaderless minority of random faiths and non-believers.

[Proteus_MST]

If he had normal brain chemistry then he doesn't have a mental illness. That he chose to murder people should be chilling.

That's wrong.
Mental illness can also mean that your Neurons are "wrongly wired", something that doesn't necessarily lead to measurable differences in our brain chemistry