Bible twice as violent as the Koran.

[kentonio]

Try ignoring him. You can't click-to-read anymore, so you have to actually go into your preferences and manually delete him from your list to make his nuttery visible. Which is way more effort than it's worth. Willpower no longer required. Of course, you now have to actually go into settings and manually type him in in the first place . . . but only once.

But then I'd have been more bored this week and actually had to find something productive to do.

[Elok]

As to laying the groundwork, yes, but "we don't like Jews" is one part. A core part, yes. But one part. If you want to say that Christians' historical legacy of antisemitism bears a portion of the blame, I wouldn't argue. Also we don't like the gay stuff. But I don't remember any church pushing for giant murder camps, the cult worship of political leaders elevated to godlike status, vengeance for national humiliation, human breeding programs, killing the handicapped and racial minorities . . .

[Kidlicious]

All of which is completely true, and I wouldn't try and put the entire responisibility onto Christianity because I think its lazy and gives too much of a pass to the people directly responsible. It is however responsible for much of the groundwork leading up to that point.

Its only relevant currently because of Kid trying to apportion collective guilt to Muslims. I'm sick of hearing the same 'arguments' that only ever lead to one group of innocent people or another getting persecuted for someone elses profit.

Bull****. You are assigning collective guilt to Christians for following people they don't follow. Muslims all follow Mohammed. So I'm not assigning collective guilt to them. You are retarded and so is elok.

[Proteus_MST]

I agree with Elok.

The Holocaust was primarily racism intermixed with conspiracy theories.
After all, the evidence whether you ere a jew or not was provided by primarily racial means.

It didn't matter whether you (as someone with jewish origins) had fallen away from jewish faith and went to a christian church instead or even were Atheist ...
if you had a crooked nose and your parents/grandparents were jews, you were in for concenration camp.
(germans had to provide informations about the last 3 or 4 generation in their "Ahnenbuch" in order to show that they are true Aryans)

Similarly visiting a synagogue for an Aryan was a lesser evil, than having a sexual relationship with a jew (the latter being called "Rassenschande" ... and especially shunned if it was an aryan woman having a sexual relationship with a jewish man ... and maybe already got "racial mixed" children out of this relationship)

For the same reason the Nazis spent a lot of money into researching racial features (in order to better seee differences between true aryans and "subhuman races" ) and also spent lots of money into a program called "Lebensborn" in order to raise the birthrate of aryan children

[Kidlicious]

A prophet is there to pass on the teachings and practises of their god, dumbass.

Don't be stupid. The wiki article says they follow Mohammed just like Buddhists follow Buddha.

[kentonio]

As to laying the groundwork, yes, but "we don't like Jews" is one part. A core part, yes. But one part. If you want to say that Christians' historical legacy of antisemitism bears a portion of the blame, I wouldn't argue. Also we don't like the gay stuff. But I don't remember any church pushing for [...]

the cult worship of political leaders elevated to godlike status

You mean apart from the declaration that most Kings and Queens of Europe were directly appointed with the approval of god and must be obeyed explicitly by thehir citizens to avoid gods wrath?

vengeance for national humiliation

Erm, the old testament?

[kentonio]

Don't be stupid. The wiki article says they follow Mohammed just like Buddhists follow Buddha.

Even Wiki expects its audience to have a reading level above 2nd grade.

[Kidlicious]

Even Wiki expects its audience to have a reading level above 2nd grade.

They are obviously mental giants compared to you.

[Ben Kenobi]

Christianity more peaceful?
Nope (a peaceful christianity is a more recent development from the 20th century onwards ... before that they (as an organized church) were as eager in persecuting "unbelievers" as other religions .... often even more so)

Jesus more peaceful (according to his depiction in the bible (in comparison to the vengeful, jealous and warlike god he represents))
Clearly yes

You are aware that the religion with the most martyrs in the 20th century is Christianity?

And I don't really see the evidence that Islam was peaceful in the 19th and the 18th century. They fought a ton of wars against both external and internal enemies.

[Kidlicious]

I agree with Elok.

The Holocaust was primarily racism intermixed with conspiracy theories.
After all, the evidence whether you ere a jew or not was provided by primarily racial means.

It didn't matter whether you (as someone with jewish origins) had fallen away from jewish faith and went to a christian church instead or even were Atheist ...
if you had a crooked nose and your parents/grandparents were jews, you were in for concenration camp.
(germans had to provide informations about the last 3 or 4 generation in their "Ahnenbuch" in order to show that they are true Aryans)

Similarly visiting a synagogue for an Aryan was a lesser evil, than having a sexual relationship with a jew (the latter being called "Rassenschande" ... and especially shunned if it was an aryan woman having a sexual relationship with a jewish man ... and maybe already got "racial mixed" children out of this relationship)

For the same reason the Nazis spent a lot of money into researching racial features (in order to better seee differences between true aryans and "subhuman races" ) and also spent lots of money into a program called "Lebensborn" in order to raise the birthrate of aryan children

At least he's right that Nazi Christians were Nazis.

[kentonio]

You are aware that the religion with the most martyrs in the 20th century is Christianity?

I don't remember more than 6 million Christians being murdered for their faith in the 20th century.

[Proteus_MST]

You are aware that the religion with the most martyrs in the 20th century is Christianity?

And I don't really see the evidence that Islam was peaceful in the 19th and the 18th century. They fought a ton of wars against both external and internal enemies.

Just as the christian countries fought a ton of wars in he 18th and 19th century.
Likewise, if we go further down the road, for example to the 14th / 15th century, if you were no christian (but no muslim either) you had a better chance at living a good life in a muslim country than a christian one ... you had to pay an extra tax, but at least your were not all too restricted in the jobs you were allowed to pursue (contrary to the holy roman empire and, I guess, other christian countries as well were, as a jew for example, you weren't allowed to pusue most "normal" jobs, which actualy is why so many european jews have a history in the financial business ...banking/money lending ws allowed for jews but (for religious reasons) not for christians, therefore jews were not hindered in pursuing this line of business).
Also in muslim countries at that time for a non christian the danger was not as high to get persecuted ... either by antisemitic mobs or by religious institutins like the inquisition.

[Ben Kenobi]

I don't remember more than 6 million Christians being murdered for their faith in the 20th century.

Nazis killed about a million Christians. Communists killed about 15 million orthodox Christians. Chinese communists killed about a million. Mexico killed about 100 thousand and Idi Amin killed about 300k.

And we haven't gotten into Cambodia. Yes the Holocaust killed quite a few Jews, but Stalin killed more Christians.

[Ben Kenobi]

Likewise, if we go further down the road, for example to the 14th / 15th century, if you were no christian (but no muslim either) you had a better chance at living a good life in a muslim country than a christian one

Prior to the 13th century, sure - but that would depend on which muslim country and which Christian country you're talking about. European standard of living surpassed that of the muslim world in the 13th century.

Also in muslim countries at that time for a non christian the danger was not as high to get persecuted ... either by antisemitic mobs or by religious institutins like the inquisition.

Not really. It was so bad that many Christians served with the Mongols because it was better to serve with the Mongols (not exactly known for their civic freedoms, than the Caliphates.

[Berzerker]

We are all sinners. We all deserve death (and worse). We are all breaking the law. All of the time.

The good news is that we are forgiven, that Christ saved us.

Why didn't God forgive us without torturing Jesus?

Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive trespassers...

You dont have to be a Christian to forgive others and frankly I dont see many Christians who believe in forgiveness. They're more in the habit of using collective guilt to punish even more people (while complaining about Muslims and sharia law).