Bible twice as violent as the Koran.

[Kidlicious]

Which one of the dozens of incidents are you talking about?

You are a liar.

I didn't say you were. Once again you're jumping to conclusions instead of reading what I actually wrote.

Then why are you telling me how horrible the Holocaust was?

You're a Christian. Your specific religion is a branch of one that has existed for 2 thousand years and still uses the same documentation. The branch occured long after those church rules were in place. Do you just disavow everything about Christianity before the Methodist church was founded?

What????!!!!

[kentonio]

It's deeply dubious to say that the Holocaust was primarily religious, given that most of the Nazi upper hierarchy was skeptical of conventional religion at best and there's evidence to suggest Hitler planned to purge the churches once he was done with everybody else. While antisemitism originated in Christian Europe, by Hitler's time it had been fundamentally transformed from a primarily religious objection (they killed Christ and continued to reject Him) to a racial "scientific" one (they were genetically predestinate thieves and parasites undermining the master race). There was at least as much, if not more, bad readings of science and bad readings of Nietzsche in Nazism as there were bad readings of Christianity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirchenkampf

The holocaust was unarguably religious, given that its primary target was a religious group. It's also almost beyond comprehension to try and suggest that the radical hatred shown by the Nazis was not based on the many centuries of religious hate propogated by the Christian church towards the Jews.

Any attempt to absolve Christianity of the ultimate responsibility for the holocaust basically requires the listener to ignore the previous nineteen centuries of history, and imagine that in the space of just a few years people raised in a country more than 99% Christian somehow completely divested themselves of any Christian foundations and took hundreds of thousands if not millions of their fellow citizens with them.

It's preposterous quite frankly.

[kentonio]

You are a liar.

Are you now claiming there haven't been dozens of instances of white police shooting unarmed black people?

Then why are you telling me how horrible the Holocaust was?

You brought it up, not me.

What????!!!!

Is the history of your own church that confusing?

[Kidlicious]

OK. That's enough. I can just do a million things instead of playing games with you.

[kentonio]

I'm sure there are many other games you could be losing at instead.

[Kidlicious]

You just ignore reality. I chose to be a Methodist for s reason you know. No you don't apparently.

[kentonio]

So you could claim the past crimes of your church don't apply to you? Gosh, its a shame the Muslims arent given that opportunity.

[Kidlicious]

So you could claim the past crimes of your church don't apply to you? Gosh, its a shame the Muslims arent given that opportunity.

Not those that follow Mohammed or any of the rest just like him.

[kentonio]

Not those that follow Mohammed or any of the rest just like him.

They don't 'follow' Mohammed, he's a prophet to them. They 'follow' Allah who is the same god that you follow for ****s sake.

[Elok]

Its target was racial Jews. A family of Goldbergs could have been Christian for three generations and still gone to the camps for having Jewish origins. Antisemitism unquestionably originated in Christendom, but so did universities, and we don't credit the Papacy for modern science. As for a majority-Christian country becoming essentially unchristian over the space of a few years, ahhhh . . . Russia? Or any other European country that went commie? Seriously, read about the Kirchenkampf--that article you just skipped right over, including the quote about banning the Bible from the Nazis' official ideologue. It wasn't politically practical for Hitler to really hammer the churches before or during the war, but he made only a lame pretense of being Catholic, expressed contempt for Christianity in private, and didn't hesitate to jail, draft or kill clergy.

[Elok]

You're essentially arguing that, because they held a version of a common prejudice originating in medieval Christianity, the Nazis were an essentially Christian movement. In spite of the fact that none of their leadership was Christian, and many of them were privately or publicly hostile to Christianity. This same logic would imply that Marxism and its many variants were all Christian, Jesus being so big on caring for the poor and downtrodden.

[kentonio]

Its target was racial Jews. A family of Goldbergs could have been Christian for three generations and still gone to the camps for having Jewish origins. Antisemitism unquestionably originated in Christendom, but so did universities, and we don't credit the Papacy for modern science.

No, sorry you don't get to brush off 19 centuries of religious strife and claim its suddenly racial. Without the Christian discrimination and persecution of the Jews over many centuries the groundswell of hate that allowed the nazis to persecute them would not have existed. Not to mention the people carrying it out where almost exclusively Christians.

As for a majority-Christian country becoming essentially unchristian over the space of a few years, ahhhh . . . Russia? Or any other European country that went commie? Seriously, read about the Kirchenkampf--that article you just skipped right over, including the quote about banning the Bible from the Nazis' official ideologue. It wasn't politically practical for Hitler to really hammer the churches before or during the war, but he made only a lame pretense of being Catholic, expressed contempt for Christianity in private, and didn't hesitate to jail, draft or kill clergy.

Actually he did a lot more than hesitate to attack the clergy at various points, there was quite an intense power struggle going on there for a while. As to your main point however, once again we can disprove it with demographics. The numbers I posted earlier were from 1933. Here's the ones from 1939, after 6 years of Nazi rule

54% Protestant
40% Catholic
3.5% Self-identified as"believers in god"
1.5% Non-religious

[Elok]

Yes, and the Church in Russia is quite strong today even after decades of Communism. What is your point?

[Kidlicious]

They don't 'follow' Mohammed, he's a prophet to them. They 'follow' Allah who is the same god that you follow for ****s sake.

Still just twisting reality.

[kentonio]

You're essentially arguing that, because they held a version of a common prejudice originating in medieval Christianity, the Nazis were an essentially Christian movement. In spite of the fact that none of their leadership was Christian, and many of them were privately or publicly hostile to Christianity. This same logic would imply that Marxism and its many variants were all Christian, Jesus being so big on caring for the poor and downtrodden.

No, I'm saying that Germany was a Christian country, raised on Christian beliefs and Christian traditions of Jewish persecution and that the Nazi party (a party comprised almost completely of Christians) rose to power on the votes of the Christian populace.

But tell me more about how the Christians had nothing to do with any of it.