Terrorist Attack in Nice

[Elok]

EDIT: I would argue that the problem was with the specific "something" we did in that case, that particular something being spectacularly moronic. "Our previous interventions in this area were inept, so we should ignore the problem entirely no matter how it grows" does not strike me as a sound foreign policy decision.

Re: American terrorism, I imagine it helps a good deal that our visa system tends to skew heavily towards the better-educated. While we might think of Muslim immigrants as stereotypical Pakistani cab-drivers or convenience store owners, the truth is that they're at least as likely to be doctors or engineers or some other profession too busy shopping for Audis to bother over international jihad. They also come from much more diverse backgrounds. I understand France has a much higher proportion of sullen, unemployed North African twenty-two-year-olds.

[kentonio]

Interesting post. Unfortunately it doesn't document by the source. I hadn't realized the peak was 450 people.

That was the year of the Lockerbie bombing.

[Sir Og]

EDIT: I would argue that the problem was with the specific "something" we did in that case, that particular something being spectacularly moronic. "Our previous interventions in this area were inept, so we should ignore the problem entirely no matter how it grows" does not strike me as a sound foreign policy decision.

Re: American terrorism, I imagine it helps a good deal that our visa system tends to skew heavily towards the better-educated. While we might think of Muslim immigrants as stereotypical Pakistani cab-drivers or convenience store owners, the truth is that they're at least as likely to be doctors or engineers or some other profession too busy shopping for Audis to bother over international jihad. They also come from much more diverse backgrounds. I understand France has a much higher proportion of sullen, unemployed North African twenty-two-year-olds.

Well if you have any examples of "somethings" which were not stupid overreactions please let me know which were they. I'd like to learn more.
For me terrorism should be treated the same way as a bank robbery for example. Unfortunately terrorism immediately activates the primal tribal emotions in people end they feel strong urges to punish the offending tribe. Which of course makes matters worse.

Re France. This is probably the developed country with the worst labour market laws. The rigid system they have makes it costly for companies to hire and fire workers. Environments like that tend to create high unemployment for the young and uneducated. It is no wonder that their immigrants are jobless, live in ghettos and see no future for themselves.

[kentonio]

Re France. This is probably the developed country with the worst labour market laws. The rigid system they have makes it costly for companies to hire and fire workers. Environments like that tend to create high unemployment for the young and uneducated. It is no wonder that their immigrants are jobless, live in ghettos and see no future for themselves.

They are far too bureaucratic here, but protecting workers rights results in the French having one of the highest worker productivity levels in the world. People work better when they aren't stressed about the possibility of losing their jobs. The endless bureaucracy probably has a much worse effect on starting up new businesses though, there are rules for absolutely everything.

[Kidlicious]

Well if you have any examples of "somethings" which were not stupid overreactions please let me know which were they. I'd like to learn more.
For me terrorism should be treated the same way as a bank robbery for example. Unfortunately terrorism immediately activates the primal tribal emotions in people end they feel strong urges to punish the offending tribe. Which of course makes matters worse.

Re France. This is probably the developed country with the worst labour market laws. The rigid system they have makes it costly for companies to hire and fire workers. Environments like that tend to create high unemployment for the young and uneducated. It is no wonder that their immigrants are jobless, live in ghettos and see no future for themselves.

Bank robbers aren't trying to take over the world, unless it's the mob.

[Kidlicious]

Doing_something has not worked very well with regards to terrorism either.
We must do_something is what started the Iraq war for example.

We would have done better to create a dictatorship, but that's not us. But we can't just not do anything. We defeated AQ, and we'll defeat ISIL. That's what needs to be done.

[Giancarlo]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/14/leaked-proposal-us-offering-russia-military-pact-syria/87069784/

Here is a leaked proposal that the US has offered Russia. I think this signals that the US has pretty much abandoned helping the so called "moderate" rebels in Syria. They may tell the Russians to avoid hitting the Kurds, but the other groups may not get any further support (if any).

[Sir Og]

We would have done better to create a dictatorship, but that's not us. But we can't just not do anything. We defeated AQ, and we'll defeat ISIL. That's what needs to be done.

I don't know how you are counting but the war was way, way costlier both in terms of people killed and in money lost than the terrorist act that was committed. Even if you only count US people as people and US money as meaningful costs this is still true.
Also there is a consensus that ISIL is a direct result from the power vacuum created by the war. So not only did doing_something not solve the problem but it made it many times worse.
And now you think the smartest thing that can be done is more of the same?

[C0ckney]

And now you think the smartest thing that can be done is more of the same?

sir og, meet kidicious.

unfortunately, there are many, many people who think in a similar way to him.

[Giancarlo]

Kidicious is the forum clown. Everything he says is ridiculous and he doesn't quite grasp how the world works. Yes, Daesh needs to be defeated but it is more complicated than that.

[Ben Kenobi]

I imagine it helps a good deal that our visa system tends to skew heavily towards the better-educated.

Imagine my surprise when I read that Khalid Sheikh Muhammed had a mechanical engineering degree... from North Carolina of all places.

[Ben Kenobi]

That was the year of the Lockerbie bombing.

Ah. Makes sense.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Ottomans left the region a disaster, but so did the colonial powers. There was a fleeting chance in the late 40s, but it was wasted.

Full marks, sir - the Turks kept the entire region a poor backwards backwater for hundreds of years, but wouldn't let various groups genocide each other, the Allies somewhat fumbled to hand-over, then there was big oil money to serve as gasoline on a fire while they're still settling out from the Ottomans 100 years later, only with global consequences because of the oil scaling everything up, especially the stakes, hugely.

Calling Elok a nerd is one of the greatest pleasures I have in life. It raises my self-confidence, gives me motivation, and is just flat-out fun. There is nothing on Earth quite like being able to call Elok a nerd.

You guise should try it sometime, tell me how you like it.

I have frequently called him a nerd to his face, actually, but find no particular charm in having done so. Pot-kettle-black and all...

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

And hey! Gratifying surprise that this thread hasn't turned pure utterly moronic name-calling yet - most it's half-civil, and good on all of you for that.

[BlackCat]

As I recall it, all of the terrorist attacks back in the 70-80'es was political based (russian communist backstabbing of freedom) while all the recent are religious based.

Oh, and just to kick BK in the balls, France was only involved in syria from 1920 to 1946 s a protectorate. That can't really be compared with Algeria wich was considered a part of France.