Terrorist Attack in Nice

[kentonio]

Which is why they are bombing... France?

France is a lot easier to get into. Shame you didn't minor in Geography, otherwise you might have found out America has oceans around it.

[Ben Kenobi]

France is a lot easier to get into. Shame you didn't minor in Geography, otherwise you might have found out America has oceans around it.

Yeah, it's a real puzzle how a Tunisian Muslim walks into France.

[Ben Kenobi]

[Berzerker]

Why would I blame America for Islamic terrorist attacks?

I blame George Bush, his son Shrub and Bill Clinton for getting us bogged down because of Saddam

they knew we were being attacked in reaction to their policies

[kentonio]

Yeah, it's a real puzzle how a Tunisian Muslim walks into France.

If you had minored in geography, you might also be aware that Africa and Europe are linked by land. Also that there is actually a difference between thousands of miles of Ocean and a few hundred miles of sea.

[Ben Kenobi]

I blame George Bush, his son Shrub and Bill Clinton for getting us bogged down because of Saddam

they knew we were being attacked in reaction to their policies

France has a long colonial history with Algeria and Syria. Why make a convoluted explanation when you have a simple one?

[Ben Kenobi]

If you had minored in geography, you might also be aware that Africa and Europe are linked by land.

As opposed to taking advantage of France's immigration policies in Algeria?

[kentonio]

As opposed to taking advantage of France's immigration policies in Algeria?

So? Your point was why the attacks weren't happening purely in America. Obviously America doesn't carry all the blame incidentally, Britain and France are also culpable for their actions, but the damage done to the Middle East in recent times was heavily US led. The crap we're having to deal with now is a direct result of the Iraq war, something France wisely advised against.

[Ben Kenobi]

So? Your point was why the attacks weren't happening purely in America.

There's a reason for him to target France that has nothing to do with America at all. Especially if he's from Tunisia, and especially with the attack being in Nice, and not, say Paris.

It seems to me more reasonable that you have a Tunisian that came over from Tunis - this isn't a recent immigrant.

Obviously America doesn't carry all the blame incidentally, Britain and France are also culpable for their actions, but the damage done to the Middle East in recent times was heavily US led.

What makes you think that Islam is concerned about what you consider to be recent times? Different worldview, Kentonio.

The crap we're having to deal with now is a direct result of the Iraq war, something France wisely advised against.

And not to French policy in Algeria and Syria? There's a reason ISIS cited Picot. America didn't draw those lines.

[kentonio]

What makes you think that Islam is concerned about what you consider to be recent times? Different worldview, Kentonio.

You have a history degree, think about the extended timeline of Islamic terrorist attacks on the west. They underwent a big rise in the 70's in response to western support for Israel at the time when the Arab-Israeli wars were a big focus, and again in the aftermath of Iraq and the subsequent disintegration of much of the region. Without even placing any responsibility for whether or not involvement is positive or negative, there is still a very clear link between western involvement in the region and attacks on the west, as indeed you'd expect there to be. There's nothing particularly controversial about any of that.

[Ben Kenobi]

You have a history degree, think about the extended timeline of Islamic terrorist attacks on the west. They underwent a big rise in the 70's in response to western support for Israel at the time when the Arab-Israeli wars were a big focus, and again in the aftermath of Iraq and the subsequent disintegration of much of the region. Without even placing any responsibility for whether or not involvement is positive or negative, there is still a very clear link between western involvement in the region and attacks on the west, as indeed you'd expect there to be. There's nothing particularly controversial about any of that.

I'm completely in agreement with this. I just don't see why we stop at the 70s. The policy of France in the 50s and 60s is relevant today.

[Berzerker]

France has a long colonial history with Algeria and Syria. Why make a convoluted explanation when you have a simple one?

There's nothing convoluted about it, you cant ignore the radicalization of Muslims over the last quarter century as a result of US policy in the Middle East...history would have taken a different path.

[Ben Kenobi]

There's nothing convoluted about it, you cant ignore the radicalization of Muslims over the last quarter century as a result of US policy in the Middle East...history would have taken a different path.

One benefit of not being an American is not believing that America is the center of the universe.

[kentonio]

I'm completely in agreement with this. I just don't see why we stop at the 70s. The policy of France in the 50s and 60s is relevant today.

Because of the timeline. Obviously their prior actions had an effect, but why would someone suddenly decide to attack a target based on the actions of 50-60 years ago when there are much more direct recent causes. That isn't to say people don't look back at prior wrongs and feel outrage, but if the Middle East was currently peaceful it is pretty implausible to say this attack would still have happened.

[Ben Kenobi]

Because of the timeline. Obviously their prior actions had an effect, but why would someone suddenly decide to attack a target based on the actions of 50-60 years ago when there are much more direct recent causes. That isn't to say people don't look back at prior wrongs and feel outrage, but if the Middle East was currently peaceful it is pretty implausible to say this attack would still have happened.

That's a good question. "Why didn't they attack France before" Had little to do with not feeling angry, they did attack Frenchmen in Algeria. They didn't attack Frenchmen in France because they couldn't get there.

That they can successfully attack Frenchmen in France is a very recent change. There have been terrorist attacks going back to the 80s with the hijackings. I would cite a failure in French policy in bringing in radical Muslims into France, and secondly, not taking the steps that needed to be taken earlier in the year to prevent the attacks.

The only terrorist attack of significant size on American soil that happened during Bush's term was 9-11. Since then there have been almost 10 Islamic terrorist attacks since 2009.

You can't very well say that there was a pause - that Islamic terrorists were less radical in 2001 than they are today. The difference is that appropriate security protections were taken and were in place after 9-11. Those have since deteriorated.

The same thing we are seeing in France. And elsewhere in Europe.