Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Ben Kenobi]

Gee... you and your friends didn't sign up for messages of peace and love and not hate.

You know nothing about them, Ming. Nothing at all.

This whole thread is a testament to why Pope Francis said what he said. His message is important to many like you and your friends.

That's not really comforting, if that's the take you take from it. That's actually really scary and depressing. I don't know. I'm at a loss here. I wish I could get you to see what's going on here...but I'm not the one you'd ever listen to.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben should try radical islam

HAHAHAHA, no. I would rather help you guys than them. And we're all gonna have to choose.

[Ming]

You know nothing about them, Ming. Nothing at all.

Gee... all I know is what you've told us. And if they are disturbed by Francis's message of love and peace, well that kind of says it all.

That's not really comforting, if that's the take you take from it. That's actually really scary and depressing. I don't know. I'm at a loss here. I wish I could get you to see what's going on here...but I'm not the one you'd ever listen to.

What's really scary and depressing is that you don't see it... and won't listen to the Pope.
The Pope was very clear in what he said. You deliver the message of hate, while Francis delivers the message of love.
It's obvious to me on which of you is worth listening to.

And I'm sure most of the posters here can see the same thing.

[Ben Kenobi]

And if they are disturbed by Francis's message of love and peace, well that kind of says it all.

Yeah, the whole, "but they must be haters too", would go over well with them, I'm sure.

Look, you don't know them. Bash me all you like, but can we leave them out of it?

is that you don't see it

I see good people going to hell because of it.

You deliver the message of hate, while Francis delivers the message of love.

The message that, "homosexuality is a sin" is a message of hate?

[Giancarlo]

That picture Ben posted in the last thread was not only showing his bigotry towards gay people, but also shows he is a xenophobic racist.

Keep it coming!

[Giancarlo]

Yeah, the whole, "but they must be haters too", would go over well with them, I'm sure.

Look, you don't know them. Bash me all you like, but can we leave them out of it?



I see good people going to hell because of it.



The message that, "homosexuality is a sin" is a message of hate?

Yes. "Homosexuality is a sin" is extremely hateful and violent language.

Bring gay is not wrong or sin. Love is not a sin.

Also saying someone is going to hell is hate speech by a bigot.

[Ben Kenobi]

Yes. "Homosexuality is a sin" is extremely hateful and violent language.

Then there's a conflict between the catechism and the catechism is hate speech. That gives Catholics two choices - to believe what the world teaches or what the catechism teaches. We can't split the difference between the two.

This is what I've been telling Ming right from the start. They cannot be reconciled, either one prevails or the other prevails.

[Berzerker]

umm...why is it a sin again? I never really got an answer, just some reference to Aquinas' opinions

[Giancarlo]

Then there's a conflict between the catechism and the catechism is hate speech. That gives Catholics two choices - to believe what the world teaches or what the catechism teaches. We can't split the difference between the two.

This is what I've been telling Ming right from the start. They cannot be reconciled, either one prevails or the other prevails.

It is definitely hate speech and in the end you will fail. You are a failure. Love is not a sin and being gay is about loving another human being.

You are a nasty bigot. And you cherrypick from the Bible. A ****ing cafeteria Christian as I call it.

[Ming]

Yeah, the whole, "but they must be haters too", would go over well with them, I'm sure.

Look, you don't know them. Bash me all you like, but can we leave them out of it?

You are the one that brought them into this... Only bigots can be disturbed by a message of peace and love. Remember, nowhere does he say that homosexuality isn't a sin.
So what's so disturbing about his message... you reading too much into it? All I see (and all my friends see) is a message that you shouldn't discriminate or treat gays badly.

I see good people going to hell because of it.

Not because of Francis's message... people that don't listen to his message should be more concerned about hell.

The message that, "homosexuality is a sin" is a message of hate?

Nope... the message of discrimination and the hateful way people like you treat gays... that's your message of hate.
Francis message doesn't say it's not a sin... but he does comment on people like you needing to apologize for your actions. He gets it, you don't.

[Giancarlo]

Homosexuality is not a sin and the Bible doesn't actually say anything about it. Ben is a big liar. Love is no sin.

[Ben Kenobi]

umm...why is it a sin again? I never really got an answer, just some reference to Aquinas' opinions

1. Sex has a purpose - to unite husband and wife for that purpose.

2. All other uses of sex are contrary to the natural order and that includes other unions.

2 follows from 1 as the premiss. If sex has a purpose and this is the purpose of sex - sin comes in when we change the equation.

Homosexuality, or rather, sodomy - follows as sinful because it does not fit in with number 1, as does fornication, etc.

[Giancarlo]

1. Sex has a purpose - to unite husband and wife for that purpose.

2. All other uses of sex are contrary to the natural order and that includes other unions.

2 follows from 1 as the premiss. If sex has a purpose and this is the purpose of sex - sin comes in when we change the equation.

Homosexuality, or rather, sodomy - follows as sinful because it does not fit in with number 1, as does fornication, etc.

Bull ****ing ****!

Homosexuality exists naturally and is part of nature. It isn't a sin and it doesn't defy the natural order. It is documented in many different species as occurring naturally, including our own.

**** off with your demented view of science. There is a reason you couldn't complete your science degree.

[Ben Kenobi]

It is definitely hate speech and in the end you will fail.

Voltaire said the same. Many others did too. We're still kicking around.

You are a failure. Love is not a sin and being gay is about loving another human being.

Love can very often lead people into sin, if we're talking Eros. That's the problem with English here. Eros!=Agape.

[Giancarlo]

Ben is contrary to the natural order. Religion isn't natural.