Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Giancarlo]

The Catholic church has a different understanding of what constitutes "order" from the DSM. According to the Catholic church, natural order within sexuality is manifested through the union of one man and one woman. The reason that all other 'unions' are 'disordered' is because they do not have the same result as the union of men and women.

You are disordered because you are a screwed up clueless asshat who has no clue what's going on around you. You are in no position of any form of credibility to discuss matters of sexuality. And the Catholic Church is in no position to dictate policy on what unions are right or not.

Ah, bull****. Right to Work laws have nothing to do with homosexuality. I actually could care less if you're homosexual and working with me. I, however have lost jobs because of my faith and even had to leave to get work. You get a big fat zero sympathy from me.

This is where you are totally full of ****ing bull****. You're a MORON in every sense. You do care and you would fire them because you're a CLUELESS LOSER. Your faith didn't cause you to lose jobs. You need a smack right in the face. People get fired simply because they are gay all the time. You do not get fired for your faith. Stop lying.

[Giancarlo]

Ben talking about "right to work" laws... so full of **** it's coming out of his eyeballs. This loser doesn't realize LGBT people are the most persecuted minority in this country still and he has the audacity to sit here and claim he gets discriminated more. What a ****ing idiot! That comment crossed the line into Trump like nutcase behavior. Any reasonable mental health professional should seriously look at Ben and possibly prescribe him some powerful medication.

Please don't come on here, you stupid lying ass and try to claim Catholics are more discriminated than LGBT people.

We've been murdered, left out to die on fences, beaten, tortured and treated as outcasts... and you are going to sit in your ivory ****ing tower and try to claim you've been discriminated more against?

To HELL with you, YOU AWFUL PATHETIC MAN.

You are privileged and you don't know a DAMN THING about discrimination.

[Ming]

I challenged Ming to provide one example of a homosexual man being fined 125k for practicing sodomy in the United States. He has been unable to provide proof. The pendulum has now swung the other way.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA... You are a one trick pony, and the trick really is lame.

Ben is comparing somebody who BROKE THE LAW by discriminating against gays, and got fined for it to the actual victims of discrimination... people who have lost there jobs, killed, beaten and many other forms of discrimination...

He likes to think the perpetrator is the victim since they were Catholics...
Yeah, the law is changing... and it's actually protecting victims and prosecuting BIGOTS who discriminate.
But BK wants to protect bigots and not the actual victims.

[-Jrabbit]

Really, you guys have started again?

I was really hoping this thread was over.

[Proteus_MST]

The Catholic church has a different understanding of what constitutes "order" from the DSM. According to the Catholic church, natural order within sexuality is manifested through the union of one man and one woman. The reason that all other 'unions' are 'disordered' is because they do not have the same result as the union of men and women.

The reality is that one union produces children, the other does not.

Still just an "opinion" of the catholic church (and an opinion that, for example, isn't shared by all other religious organizations)

Heterosexual couples who marry after the age of ~50-55 also have no chance of children anymore.

Would prison have been the equivalent loss of 120k for Turing?

Of course ... Turing lost his job for the government (i.e. for SigInt) I don't know how much money it gave him, but I am sure the loss over time amounted to 120k in nowadays money at least. Had he gone to prison he also would have lost his job for the university, losing him even more money. He probably also would have found it difficulty if not impossible to get hired again, as convicted gay person.
Not to forget the probable harrassment inprison, which would have resulted in Traumata which would have tainted his whole life afterwards.

Sure. Ok, that doesn't change the fact that this was more than 60 years ago. Times change and the pendulum has swung the other way now.

Not really, as Giancarlo said, you can still get fired for being a homosexual. Actually we had a case in germany just 4 years ago.
A teacher working for a catholic Kindergarten confessed to her employer that she was a lesbian and was promptly fired by the catholic church.
Despite the fact that she did a very good job and the parents of the kids in the Kindergarten all wanted to keep her.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/bayern/streit-um-lesbische-erzieherin-aerger-mit-dem-kindergarten-1.1439898

And the catholic church (in germany), in contrast to other employers, is actually allowed to do this (i.e. firing people because of their sexual orientation), because of statutory religious freedom

We have at times been forced to join whatever protestant church was in power at the time. You seem to not think that Catholics are minorities in America.

But I doubt you nowadays in the USA you get fired for being catholics ... or persecuted in other ways

[Sava]

however have lost jobs because of my faith

translation:


I acted like a complete ******* and probably harassed someone. Unable to accept responsibility for my behavior, I concluded that they fired me because my religion.

[giblets]

lost a job because he can't stop talking about how much he hates the gays

he hates sodomy so much, it's a wonder he's never had sex with a woman

[Giancarlo]

translation:


I acted like a complete ******* and probably harassed someone. Unable to accept responsibility for my behavior, I concluded that they fired me because my religion.

Or he was just **** at the job and they hired someone better.

So he has settled to be a part time substitute teacher at Catholic school.

[-Jrabbit]

Much more likely that he left jobs because he perceived a conflict with his faith.

[Ben Kenobi]

You are disordered because you are a screwed up clueless asshat who has no clue what's going on around you. You are in no position of any form of credibility to discuss matters of sexuality. And the Catholic Church is in no position to dictate policy on what unions are right or not.

One, I never said that the Catholic church says anything about right to work. FDR, however does - saying that public unions should be banned.

Two, you're right. Just because other people have disordered lives doesn't mean that I don't *also* suffer from psychological disorder too. Never claimed otherwise. The one, however has nothing to do with the other, which I think you well know...

[Ben Kenobi]

Much more likely that he left jobs because he perceived a conflict with his faith.

The curriculum up here changed just before my senior year. So yeah, I did get turned down for some teaching positions after I graduated.

[Ben Kenobi]

So he has settled to be a part time substitute teacher at Catholic school.

Uh, I'm not a substitute. I realize it's hard to reckon, but I teach two classes, which is not a full load, but I have a contract.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben talking about "right to work" laws... so full of **** it's coming out of his eyeballs. This loser doesn't realize LGBT people are the most persecuted minority in this country still and he has the audacity to sit here and claim he gets discriminated more. What a ****ing idiot! That comment crossed the line into Trump like nutcase behavior. Any reasonable mental health professional should seriously look at Ben and possibly prescribe him some powerful medication.

Yawn. I don't see Christians fining atheists 125k. They are actually the most privileged minority in America.

Please don't come on here, you stupid lying ass and try to claim Catholics are more discriminated than LGBT people.

You're right, we aren't Just ask the Little Sisters of the Poor.

We've been murdered, left out to die on fences, beaten, tortured and treated as outcasts... and you are going to sit in your ivory ****ing tower and try to claim you've been discriminated more against?

So have we.

You are privileged and you don't know a DAMN THING about discrimination

Given that I have a disability, I think I do.

[Dauphin]

Yawn. I don't see Christians fining atheists 125k. They are actually the most privileged minority in America.

How many bible belt states ban atheists from holding office in their constitution?

[Ben Kenobi]

Still just an "opinion" of the catholic church (and an opinion that, for example, isn't shared by all other religious organizations)

You're free to believe that as I am free to believe that the DSM is nothing but the 'opinion' of scientists. If the DSM can change, then what's the objective reality of diagnosis?

Heterosexual couples who marry after the age of ~50-55 also have no chance of children anymore.

True, but the union is the same. Just because a battery dies, doesn't mean plugging it in backwards will make it work again.

Of course ... Turing lost his job for the government (i.e. for SigInt) I don't know how much money it gave him, but I am sure the loss over time amounted to 120k in nowadays money at least.

Not sure myself. There've been Christians who got sent to jail already who were working for the government. Kim Davis is an example.

Had he gone to prison he also would have lost his job for the university, losing him even more money. He probably also would have found it difficulty if not impossible to get hired again, as convicted gay person.

Not to forget the probable harrassment inprison, which would have resulted in Traumata which would have tainted his whole life afterwards.

Check and check for Kim. Thankfully she got released.

Not really, as Giancarlo said, you can still get fired for being a homosexual.

You can get fired for anything in most of America, due to Right to Work laws. Has nothing to do with being homosexual.

A teacher working for a catholic Kindergarten confessed to her employer that she was a lesbian and was promptly fired by the catholic church.
Despite the fact that she did a very good job and the parents of the kids in the Kindergarten all wanted to keep her.

She signed a contract stating that she would follow the conduct of the Catholic church. She then violated her contract publicly. That's why she was fired. If she's not willing to follow the provisions of her contract, then she should not have signed it.

If you're arguing that Catholics have to hire people acting in variance with the Catholic faith, then that, is contrary to what the Church teaches. I realize that Germany's laws are different, but the Church can not and should not be forced to hire anyone who chooses not to obey the Church.

And the catholic church (in germany), in contrast to other employers, is actually allowed to do this (i.e. firing people because of their sexual orientation), because of statutory religious freedom

As well they should.

But I doubt you nowadays in the USA you get fired for being catholics ... or persecuted in other ways

Things have changed. Look at the Little Sisters of the Poor.