Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Ben Kenobi]

Kids reach the age of consent at 13 for the church lol.

For confirmation, yes. I don't see you attacking bar mitzvahs that are done at the same age.

[Giancarlo]

For confirmation, yes. I don't see you attacking bar mitzvahs that are done at the same age.

They are all forced ceremonies by parents so yes I would.

[Ben Kenobi]

only in rare exceptions

Actually, there are 500 a year in Texas. Judicial bypasses are not rare.

[Ben Kenobi]

They are all forced ceremonies by parents so yes I would.

Can I get you on record saying that you oppose bar mitzvahs?

[kentonio]

Beyond the scope of his power? No. But then why didn't he choose Francis in the first place? He chose Benedict, Benedict chose instead to resign rather than serve out his office.

And of course god is such a ***** that he'd allow someone to basically unduly take control of the Catholic church and teach something opposed to what god wanted right? That is what you're saying?

No, I don't think God told Benedict to resign. I think Benedict wanted to resign.

So you now claim to know the will of god? Interesting.

If God truly appointed Benedict, then Francis cannot change what Benedict and all the other popes have taught. Full stop.

God caan do whatever he wants, and whatever you think about that should be completely irrelevant no? Or do you again think you're more important than god, and that you can enforce rules over his power?

Francis is God now? Jesus argued that not the least stroke of the Law has been abolished. You look at what Christ taught in marriage, "in the beginning it was not always so". He was restoring not discarding.

You're saying god can't speak through his representative on earth? That's interesting, so papal infallibility is also bull****? Or is god only allowed to speak to his representative when you deem is allowable?

Yawn. The only source I've seen for the claim that God inspired him to resign is an 'unnamed source'. That is not good enough.

They then asked the Vatican for confirmation, and they said yes that sounds like the explanation as we understand it. So basically now you're calling the Vatican liars as well as the last 2 popes? Are you sure you're a Catholic?

Uh, I know that God has chosen to operate in this manner since Christ gave Peter the keys.

You presume to know how god works? You really are a heretic aren't you.

Your source does not claim this. Rather it reports from what an 'unnamed' source claims that he heard Benedict say these things. There is nothing stopping Benedict from saying so himself.

See above, they fact checked with the Vatican.

Either he lied before or the 'unnamed' source is lying now. I don't believe unattributed quotes - ever. Much mischief comes from them.

So despite the Vatican confirming it, you'd rather call a pope you admire a liar rather than accept something you don't like? That really does say a lot about you as a person, you really just can't ever admit you're wrong can you?

[Giancarlo]

Can I get you on record saying that you oppose bar mitzvahs?

Absolutely. Kids cannot make an informed decision when their parents are forcing them to do it.

[Giancarlo]

Ben is such a huge liar. I think we established that today. Priests diddling kids isn't a problem. But don't even think about leaving the church lmao.

[-Jrabbit]

6th grade, 8th grade -- immaterial.

yeah, it's my job to determine whether they are ready or whether they are not.

Try Eighth graders for one. Two, you'd be surprised. Many folks are like rah and Giancarlo, clueless about their own faith. That's part of my job to get them up to speed so that they don't end up like rah and Giancarlo.

You yourself are stating unequivocally that it's YOUR JOB, not the child's, to determine whether they are ready to make a lifelong commitment to the RCC. There can be no clearer indication of the fact that these youngsters are not capable of reliably making such a decision. So thank you for admitting that.

Do you even know what "own goal" means?

[rah]

Actually, there are 500 a year in Texas. Judicial bypasses are not rare.

That doesn't change that they are exceptions. It is illegal. And doesn't support your original statement which is all we care about here.

[kentonio]

Try Eighth graders for one.

What should members of the Catholic church never say? For 15 please Alex.

[Ben Kenobi]

And of course god is such a ***** that he'd allow someone to basically unduly take control of the Catholic church and teach something opposed to what god wanted right? That is what you're saying?

God let his people choose Barabbas over Jesus, did he not? And how did that work out? There are many instances in the bible where someone who is called by God refuses the call, and someone else is chosen. It never works well.

So you now claim to know the will of god? Interesting.

I believe Benedict when he said he was ill and felt overwhelmed.

God caan do whatever he wants, and whatever you think about that should be completely irrelevant no? Or do you again think you're more important than god, and that you can enforce rules over his power?

God says one thing and then changes his mind and says, "everything you believe on marriage is wrong?" What kind of a God is that, Kentonio? Was he wrong before, or wrong now. That is my point. What God has said on marriage is clear. Francis cannot change that.

If he tries, I am not sure what I think about that Kentonio. Get back to me if he does. He has not.. *yet*. But I think he might try.

You're saying god can't speak through his representative on earth? That's interesting, so papal infallibility is also bull****? Or is god only allowed to speak to his representative when you deem is allowable?

No, I'm stating that he can't say X is infallible, and then turn around and say, no, X is not infallible. The list of infallible teachings is not as long as you might think, and nothing Francis has said has contravened anything infallible - yet.

They then asked the Vatican for confirmation, and they said yes that sounds like the explanation as we understand it. So basically now you're calling the Vatican liars as well as the last 2 popes? Are you sure you're a Catholic?

It doesn't square with what he said when he resigned.

You presume to know how god works? You really are a heretic aren't you.

Uh, you're aware of where Peter's authority comes from? Christ giving Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven.

So despite the Vatican confirming it, you'd rather call a pope you admire a liar rather than accept something you don't like? That really does say a lot about you as a person, you really just can't ever admit you're wrong can you?

Call it well-earned skepticism of the Media. I have trusted sources - the Guardian is not one of them. The reason I trust my sources is that they have reported well for a long time - especially when the media has reported poorly. I don't trust secular media, basically - ever - unless I can get real confirmation that the person has actually said what they did. If I can't see them saying it - chances are they didn't actually said as was reported.

It's also why I wait for *every* FULL transcript of Francis. I've caught the media constantly lying about him.

[Proteus_MST]

....

If you're confirmed, you were and are Catholic. That's how sacramentals work, Gian. You should have been taught that in your classes.

But, as you were a protestant before (and, I guess, received a protestant confirmation) doesn't that mean that you were, are and will always remain a protestant, regardless of any later catholic confirmation?

[giblets]

Ben is a protestant telling catholics like rah how to be catholic

[kentonio]

God let his people choose Barabbas over Jesus, did he not? And how did that work out? There are many instances in the bible where someone who is called by God refuses the call, and someone else is chosen. It never works well.

Well given that it led to Jesus sacrifice washing away man's sins, and indeed the establishment of Christianity, are you saying that 'didn't work well'? How much of a heretic are you?

[Ben Kenobi]

6th grade, 8th grade -- immaterial.

Actually, quite germane to the discussion as of the age of reason.

You yourself are stating unequivocally that it's YOUR JOB, not the child's, to determine whether they are ready to make a lifelong commitment to the RCC.

It is my job to teach them. If I don't believe they are ready - ie - they don't understand what the Church actually teaches, then I will suggest they wait and go on from there. It's not an issue of capacity, but of competence.

A student cannot assess their own competence, that is my job. Their capacity is something else entirely. I've had maybe one issue of capacity come up my whole time there where there were questions as to whether the student had the capacity to understand what was being taught. Had plenty with competence, where the student didn't demonstrate adequate knowledge at that point to be ready for confirmation.

You could, in fact - pass my history course and still not be ready for confirmation. There were a few students like that. Generally they had some stumbling blocks and I suggested resolving those stumbling blocks before getting confirmed.

There can be no clearer indication of the fact that these youngsters are not capable of reliably making such a decision. So thank you for admitting that.

Uh, if that were the case, wouldn't everyone fail?

Do you even know what "own goal" means?

If your argument is that 13 is too young, by far the majority were ready and had adequate knowledge to proceed. If that's what you term "own goal", I'd hate to see what you'd call actually scoring a point.