Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Ben Kenobi]

Which makes arguments against homosexual marriages even more shallow (at least if we use nowadays reasonign for marriages ... i.e. love between a couple and he esire to be together forever).

I'm not sure how you would come to this conclusion? I'm arguing that these desires are natural - but that they must be controlled in order to be beneficial. That goes on both sides of the line. Every sensible person believes this. For someone who lacks alcoholism, there is nothing wrong with them drinking in moderation.

Also with this separation Ben strongly argues for castration/oophorectomy for all humans (no matter what sexual orientation) from childhood on, so that the inclination (i.e. sexual desire) drops to a minimum.

Nonsense. If this were done, there wouldn't be children. I am saying that there is a proper outlet for sexual inclination. That outlet being one man and one woman in marriage. Indulging in sex outside of marriage causes problems up and down the line.

[Ben Kenobi]

being gay seems from studies almost guaranteed to be genetic.
but he tries to say it's environmental.

I'm not sure, again - how you reach that conclusion. Alcoholism is something that my family has dealt with for a long time. Arguing that it is akin to alcoholism is not an argument that definitively states that there is a genetic or an environmental component to it.

Two, if you can inherit an inclination or desires, that does not absolve someone from controlling these desires. An alcoholic may find it difficult to abstain, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible for them to do so, or even that it would mean repressing the desire to drink.

[Bereta_Eder]

So you're admitting that homosexuality is genetic but you compare it to "genetic" alcoholism and you say that both should be controlled.
By passing that "inherent" alcoholism is indeed a very feable "excuse" what you are proposing for homosexuality is that it should be controlled.

The question is why?

_Is it because of allegedly higher transmitted SDTs? This is simply inapplicable.

_Is it because the person would "suffer" if he/she responded to these very natural and panhuman feelings? Why would he/she suffer? Because of an intolerant society? Society can change.

_Is it because he/she will be going to hell? That's laughable

[rah]

Again, you're working under the assumption that being gay is harmful to you. It's not. It's the having unprotected sex that can be.
Gays in monogamous relationships do NOT show an increase in STDs. If it's your desire to outlaw all unprotected sex, good luck with that.

Being Gay is not a disease like alcoholism. And how your family dealt with it is not relevant at all.

[Ben Kenobi]

Again, you're working under the assumption that being gay is harmful to you. It's not. It's the having unprotected sex that can be.

Alcoholism isn't a death sentence, rah. Uncontrolled alcoholism is the problem. What you are arguing is that yes, there are significant health problems associated when you don't control your sexual impulses.

As for homosexuality, there are problems that arise that are unique to sodomy that are not present for other forms of sex.

Gays in monogamous relationships do NOT show an increase in STDs. If it's your desire to outlaw all unprotected sex, good luck with that.

Why would I insist that because some people do not choose to control their desires that means we ought to ban it for everyone?

[Giancarlo]

Inclinations can be desires or compulsions. I am stating that the desires are real, Gian.



We're discussing my definition and why it's wrong. Arguing, "it doesn't match your definition", is not a refutation.



Alcoholism unless controlled can indeed be deadly. The same with homosexuality given the rates of STD transmission, particularly with HIV.

You have a lot or crazy stupid definitions. Some that don't match up with reality.

Heterosexual sex results in STDs and HIV. The vast majority or HIV cases are actually among heterosexuals. Again, pigeon... We aren't talking about sex acts. Sexual orientation does not equal sex acts.

[Ben Kenobi]

So you're admitting that homosexuality is genetic but you compare it to "genetic" alcoholism and you say that both should be controlled.

If you're an alcoholic, just because you were 'born with it', isn't an excuse to choose to indulge in alcohol. That is my point. Even if you aren't born an alcoholic, you can still become accustomed to alcohol if you don't control yourself.

_Is it because of allegedly higher transmitted SDTs? This is simply inapplicable.

Everybody is in this position. If you have sex with lots of people you're putting your health and your life at risk.

[Giancarlo]

Alcoholism isn't a death sentence, rah. Uncontrolled alcoholism is the problem. What you are arguing is that yes, there are significant health problems associated when you don't control your sexual impulses.

As for homosexuality, there are problems that arise that are unique to sodomy that are not present for other forms of sex.



Why would I insist that because some people do not choose to control their desires that means we ought to ban it for everyone?

You are so ignorant. It isn't anything like alcoholism and the so called health risk argument is a pile of debunked crap. Countries that outlaw and forbid homosexuality often have some of the lowest life expectancies.

Oh and stop being ignorant. Sodomy is done by heterosexuals too.

Why should we live a ridiculously sterile pathetic life like you?

[rah]

Why do you keep bringing up alcoholism in a thread about gays? Oh, that's right, so you divert people away from what we're really talking about.
We don't care about your drunken relatives. Unless they were gay too, then they might be relevant to the current discussion.

AND BIG CLUE TO BEN. Married couples sometimes practice sodomy. Ben wants to patrol bedrooms looking for kinky sex.

x-post

[Giancarlo]

If you're an alcoholic, just because you were 'born with it', isn't an excuse to choose to indulge in alcohol. That is my point. Even if you aren't born an alcoholic, you can still become accustomed to alcohol if you don't control yourself.



Everybody is in this position. If you have sex with lots of people you're putting your health and your life at risk.

Stop comparing my sexual orientation to alcoholism, you vapid arrogant little man. It has nothing to do with inclinations and indulgences. Oh and your ideas are about three or four decades old. Debunked, wrong and totally obsolete.

[Bereta_Eder]

If you're an alcoholic, just because you were 'born with it', isn't an excuse to choose to indulge in alcohol. That is my point. Even if you aren't born an alcoholic, you can still become accustomed to alcohol if you don't control yourself.



Everybody is in this position. If you have sex with lots of people you're putting your health and your life at risk.

So you now negated on your initial assumption about why homosexuality is allegendly "bad".

Two more to go.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why do you keep bringing up alcoholism in a thread about gays? Oh, that's right, so you divert people away from what we're really talking about.

Because that's my argument?

We don't care about your drunken relatives. Unless they were gay too, then they might be relevant to the current discussion.

And here we go. Rah doesn't like the direction the discussion is taking so he slams down on the brakes.

AND BIG CLUE TO BEN. Married couples sometimes practice sodomy. Ben wants to patrol bedrooms looking for kinky sex.

Sure. That doesn't mean there aren't health consequences associated with it.

[Giancarlo]

So you now negated on your initial assumption about why homosexuality is allegendly "bad".

Two more to go.

He basically said that if I don't live as a virgin, abstain from sex and any kind of relationship, I will wind up dead.

What a joke he is. He tries to powder it over.

Oh and Ben is the guy who opened a thread up about drinking and being drunk.

[Giancarlo]

Not all homosexuals engage in anal sex, Ben. And sex acts don't equate to sexual orientation. I knew I was gay long before I had any form of sex.

[Ben Kenobi]

You are so ignorant. It isn't anything like alcoholism and the so called health risk argument is a pile of debunked crap. Countries that outlaw and forbid homosexuality often have some of the lowest life expectancies.

Terrible argument. Wouldn't the better argument be to compare the incidence ratios of specific STDs between the homosexual community and everyone else?

Oh and stop being ignorant. Sodomy is done by heterosexuals too.

Indeed. The health consequences are associated with the act.

Why should we live a ridiculously sterile pathetic life like you?

One, I'm not quite sure where I've argued you should emulate my life. Two, I don't even want to continue my life on where I am at present. I want to get married, have kids, settle down.