Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Sava]

children have the same rights as everyone else, the bill of rights doesn't mention adults or children, just people

yeah

the trick was/is: who gets to be considered a person?

[kentonio]

Do you want children to bare arms?

Why would you want a child to bare their arms? Are you a Catholic now?

[Proteus_MST]

Do you have any evidence that homeschooled children are racist, anti-Semites and/or terrorists? I don't think you do, otherwise you would have provided such evidence.

As I've already stated, all of the mass shooters attended public schools here in the US, with the exception of one, who was mentally ill, and his mentally ill mother pulled him from school. No one is saying that mentally ill children should be homeschooled by their mentally ill mother.

So what about terrorists? Do you think your public school is discouraging people from becoming terrorists? I bet I can show you evidence to the contrary. Also, I have a good idea that your school teaches white washed history that makes western civilization look evil, and Islamic civilization look like victims. Think that discourages terrorism? I don't.

Racist/anti-Semites? Need evidence.

Well, I can opnly speak of the german society, of course:

Regarding Neonazis (and their complex of Antisemitism, Racism, Nationalism):
Well, there are big differences between germany and the USA.

Germany lost the war and germans got told by everyone how evil they were (KZs and so on).
Also we lost the last remnants of Ostpreussen (illegally) to Poland and the USSR (actually the plans were, that polands and russians were to manage this territory and that, some time later there would be anotzher conference among all allies regarding what would become of Ostpreussen (i.e. if it would be given back to germany) ... but actually the russians just outright annexed their part of Ostpreussen (and deported all germans) ... and the Polands deported all germans from their part of Ostpreussen, settled Poles in their stead and then held a referendum (among the now pure polish population) of Ostpreussen, wether they want to become a part of Poland.
All of the other Allies just watched and did nothing to prevent this.

While most of the germans just accept that it is at it is (and also that Ostpreussen is lost forever), the whole thing is a breeding ground for lots of groups who have beliefs that are in contrast with the wellbeing of germany or the cooperation with other countries.
There are many families among those deported from Ostpreussen, who want their lands back ... there are those who are taken in their pride that germany lost the war (and think that german should be great again, with german soldier boots stomping on our neighbors soil) ... there are those who buy into the Nazi propaganda about aryan superiority and that Aryans should rule the lesser races ... or thzat a jewish world conspiracy exists ... and there are also the Reichsbürger, who don't accept the FRG as a state and live in their own fantasy world where they form their own Reichs-Governments, issue Reichs-Driving Licenses and so on.

The problem is worsened by the fact that in the GDR (in contrast to the FRG), there never was an active denazification campaign. Insteads the russian overlords of the GDR just claimed, that the Nazi movement is just a problemof the decadent west and that, in the paradise of the communists, there is no such things like Fascism.
With the result that, when the GDR was disbanded, a lot of people fell for the Neonazi propaganda of right wing parties and they gained lots of influence .. also culminating in the incidents at Rostock and Lichtenhagen in the 90s, where right wing youths threw stones and Molotov Cocktails at asylum seeker homes and a large crowd of city inhabitants stood around and applauded them.
(Meanwhile the influence of the right wing has lessened in eastern germany, but it still is widespread, as shown by Pegida, which started in Dresden and Leipzig)

What do you think, would happen if people like these were allowed to homeschool their kids?



As for Muslims:
It is rather the contrary ... a (hopefully small) part of the muslims in germany actually lives in their own world ... that means, traditionally muslim role models (meaning, the girl has to obey the men in the family (and later her husband)), ultrareligiosity, sometimes forced marriages and so on. In some families the wifes even cannot speak all too good german, despite having been in germany for many years ... and often their children (who visit german schools) have to translate for them.

The radicalization into becoming accessible for propaganda of IS(IS) usually happens in the social group of muslim mosques ... not always the preachers themselves (although there are some, which are under observation by the german version of the FBI), but more often by recruiters who are "simple" attendees to the religious services and actively look out for "victims" that may be easy to influence.

Homeschooling among these muslim families would have the effect that they feel even more, primary as muslims, outsiders of the german society and not as germans, therefore creating a society withion the german society, which is even harder (than now) to get into accepting european values.

I am sure that with homeschooling we already would have had some terrorism like in france ... and/or islamist quarters like Molenbeek in Belgium


So, I think that the situation in germany is a little bit different than the one in the USA. Especially also considering the fact that the USA has only few muslim refugees (due to their distance to the crisis regions), and most people only get into the USA with a Greencard (i.e. only a preselected few)

As for public schools:
They do (at least in my time in the 80s, but I am sure also nowadays) a very good job in counteracting right wing propaganda (actually we had the Third Reich multiple times and also watched former NS propaganda films like "Der ewige Jude" which actually is countertpropaganda today, because it shows what the Nazis did to the jewish inhabitants in the Ghetto of Warscaw).
And nope, I have never experienced school lessons where the muslims were one-sidedly portrayed as victims.

[Ben Kenobi]

More made up BK BS. Next you'll be making up a DL called MARIA.
No one here believes you so don't even try.

LOL. Easier to believe it's all made up than the truth. This is the fun part. I can post lots of personal stuff about my life here and nobody believes it.

I've listened to my GAY FRIENDS also and guess what? I actually support them and their happiness. I attended their weddings.

Homosexual people are not a monolith, Rah.

I've never had to explain to them that I think what they are is abominable. Did you ever think that your friend is being a better friend than you by telling you that he's ok with you disapproval? You are not a real friend.

Again, you're imposing your beliefs on him. Why would he think the same way you do, rah?

I hope some day you have a child who is gay. What will you tell them when they invite you to their wedding.

I will tell him the same thing I told my brother. That I'm not going to his wedding.

I'm sure you'll come back here and post that you were there for them and they understood that you didn't believe they should have basic rights.

And you'll probably tell me how you're the better father.

You're pathetic.

I hope you have a Christian child.

[Ben Kenobi]

He also wants divorce banned.

Hrm? Maybe you can point out to a post where I've said that. I'm pretty outspoken about my beliefs. I don't like divorce, but civil divorce shouldn't be banned. Same with contraceptives.

[Ben Kenobi]

It says BK is a mangina?

Wow. I thought you were a Christian? Ephesians is pretty clear. Each husband should have his own wife and each wife her own husband. The union of husband and wife together is what makes a marriage. The 4 wife polygamy thing is inherently an unequal union and not the same.

[Ben Kenobi]

We dont have religious freedom in this country (as you pointed out), but the only restrictions that are permissible stem from the grant of powers to Congress. So if my religion compels me to oppose paying taxes to support a war I'm outta luck, the politicians have the power to tax. Congress doesn't have any power granted by the Constitution to ban polygamy (or gay marriage), but you want Congress to have that power while telling us you believe in religious freedom and the Constitution.

Reynolds argues that the constitution stems from the English Common Law and that Marriage can no more be changed by the constitution than the constitution can discard things like Habeaus Corpus (which Lincoln tried to do away with), or trial by Jury.

Read up on the case. It's a fascinating argument.

There are other examples of banned religious practices in the United States, including burning your widow on a pyre. Religious practices /= religious freedom

That's a pretty facile dismissal. Religious freedom is not unfettered. There are restrictions and limitations on it.

[Proteus_MST]

Antisemitism is much, much older than Hitler. As is German nationalism. Mueller's anthropology introduced the concept of Aryanism in 1861, right along with the origin of the species. This is why it flourished alongside social Darwinism.

So, again - the complex of all three dates to about the 1880s in Germany, 10 years before Hitler was born. Hitler wasn't a unicorn in Germany and the sooner you accept that the better off you'll be.

I say that as someone of German descent myself from OstPreuBen.

I didn't dispute in any way that those 3 were present in one form or the other in the years before that.
(Actually the jews in europe already had to endure their first progroms during medieval times, when european crusaders pillaged several jewish villages/districts, on their way to the holy land)

But Hitler (or rather Goebbels as his Propaganda minister) was the one that combined them to a powerful propaganda tool.

Some because of the economics which were exacerbated by Versailles, sure. But some did vote Nazi because they agreed with what the Nazis taught. If you're going to be truly denazified, you can't just scapegoat Hitler without accepting that it was a broad feeling among many Germans at the time.

I'm actually kind of shocked that a purportedly Leftwing German believes that Hitler was a unicorn.

It's more than Merkel has. 37 percent is an enormous number.

It still means 63% aren't for you

This is mere speculation.

One, we don't have the original source of the Roman 12 tablets, so we cannot actually assess and compare these laws to prove that there are similarities between Solon's laws and the Roman Laws.

Two, that the laws are similar is not evidence that they were indeed taken from Solon. There is nothing stopping different places from having similar laws.

Three, there's zero connection between Solon and Hammurabi, other than wishful thinking.

The existence of Jesus also is mere speculation

I would argue that muslim polygamy is sufficiently different to warrant the term marriage being used apart from the Christian sense.

What about protestant parishes in the USA who perform homosexual marriages?

Someone who prefers sharia law to the point of advocating for it in Canada or the US should be sent to a country that prefers sharia law. Citizenship or no.

The other states also have a say in that, on whether they want the people you deport to be in their country
Although I know that there often are people in the USA who forget this, obviously as a result of USian megalomania

Germany's problem is that they are too soft on 'refugees' that show up to Germany. If you can't send them home when they show up that is a serious problem for Germany in general.

Turkey has room for them, let them go to Turkey and stay there.

LOL
Well we would like to, if we could
Unfortunately I guess, Erdogan would dis

[Ben Kenobi]

And rather does that what is best for the majority of its citizens.
Including offering homosexual marriages and not only heterosexual ones

How then would you argue against polygamy? You can concoct a justification for anything if that's your argument.

[Ben Kenobi]

It still means 63% aren't for you

Sure. But it offers a chilling reminder as to why it's important to understand how that all came about.

The existence of Jesus also is mere speculation

We have multiple not Christian sources that speak of his existence. So no, it's not.

What about protestant parishes in the USA who perform homosexual marriages?

I would argue the same. Marriage is defined by the union of a man and a woman together.

The other states also have a say in that, on whether they want the people you deport to be in their country

In the case of Turkey they should have thought about it before they granted them access through their territory.

Although I know that there often are people in the USA who forget this, obviously as a result of USian megalomania

Right. Because I *am* an American

Well we would like to, if we could
Unfortunately I guess, Erdogan would dis

Erdogan shouldn't have let them through his borders. Now they are his responsibility.

[Proteus_MST]

How then would you argue against polygamy? You can concoct a justification for anything if that's your argument.

Is the majority of the US citizens pro polygamous marriages?

As for homosexual marriages AFAIK latest polls show that more than 60% of the USians have a positive attitude towartds homosexual marriages,
so allowing them surely represents the will of the majority of US citizens

[Bereta_Eder]

So has Ben apoliogized the the gays or has he effectuated the third schism?

[rah]

LOL. Easier to believe it's all made up than the truth. This is the fun part. I can post lots of personal stuff about my life here and nobody believes it.

And easier for you to post personal stuff that no one can confirm. Every day it's something new.
It's obvious I'm not the only one that doesn't believe any of it. We all seem to laugh at you routinely.
For me, my friends acknowledgement of your douchier is confirmed since many of them post here and have experienced your vile bigotry.
Not my imagination.

I will tell them the same thing I told my brother. That I'm not going to his wedding.

So you're a crappy brother too. Nice to have confirmation. Since the most important think in life is family and friends and you fail at both, you have no redeeming values.

Again, you're imposing your beliefs on him. Why would he think the same way you do, rah?

No, I'm accepting their belief. I am not gay. I'm accepting them as they are and NOT BEING JUDGMENTAL.
Just another indication of how clueless you are.

And you'll probably tell me how you're the better father.

Since you aren't a father, I think I win that one by default.
But if you refuse to go to your child's wedding, You don't deserve the title of father.

I hope you have a Christian child.

Thanks, but I already have a Christian child, and getting a bit old to have another.

[Kidlicious]

Hrm? Maybe you can point out to a post where I've said that. I'm pretty outspoken about my beliefs. I don't like divorce, but civil divorce shouldn't be banned. Same with contraceptives.

You said children have rights. Did you mean that?

[Ben Kenobi]

Yet another straw man on your part since gay marriage IS LEGAL IN THIS COUNTRY. You are the one that has to find another argument.

Easy, marriage is one man and one woman, and is different from homosexual marriage, ergo the legal code should treat two things that are different in substance from each other.

Other religions should be allowed to perform gay marriages since it is LEGAL.

Legal!=Moral.

You are the one that wants to deny them their right of religious freedoms. You keep whining for religious freedom yet only for your religion.

Religious freedom isn't an absolute.

You want to blame all Muslims for 9/11, then you should blame all Catholics for every child raped and then covered up.

Muslims are responsible for 9-11.

Divorce is legal in this country... Many children don't have the their parents because of it.

That's a problem with divorce, yes. But it's also a problem with homosexual adoption.

Yes, there is a great value in parents staying together and raising their children... but that has NOTHING TO DO WITH GAYS GETTING MARRIED. The state and other religions allow divorce. It's legal in this country and other religions allow it. They deserve their religious freedom as well.

Has quite a bit to do with it, actually. But then you knew that which is why you're conflating it with divorce. Children have a right to a mother and a father, that divorce doesn't abrogate, which is why a divorced father has a right to see their child.

(and Kidicious would understand that if he even bothered reading things).

Tell that to a child who's needs come dead last in this social experiment. What are you going to say, that they are a bigot for being unhappy?

That's right, Ming. Kids and their needs come last. "Feeling good" comes first.