Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Proteus_MST]

The church *is* a charity. By the same standards and definition of all other non-profits, they qualify.

...

I dispute that ... the Vatican runs many charities, but it also is the head of a vast financial empire

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/03/vaticans-financial-empire-in-charts.html

Someone, I think it was Rah, mentioned that one minimum requirement for tax exemption should be, that churches which apply for tax exemption should lay open their financial records, to prove that they are a non profit organisation, just like other corporations have to do

I should think so. However, the Catholic schools system should be reinstated. I'm fine with dropping the Catholic church funds, we can fund ourselves and run our own school. \

They are not a present free to do so. That was the deal established. It was a bad deal all around and helped to create much of the problems we later saw in Germany. Germany still doesn't have true educational freedom in banning homeschooling.

I meant, of course, catholic schools that exist in germany (and to which she went).
And of those there exist many, especially in NRW and Rhineland Palatine

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konfessionsschule

But of course, these confessional schools have to adhere to certain standards that are set by the german ministry of education.
And this is a good thing as is guarantees that all pupils, regardless from which school, have at a minimum roughly the same standards of knowledge ... this also prevents that, for example, muslims or fringe christian sects opening confessional school which teach creationism instead of ecolution

[Kidlicious]

Well, we see what happens when we have the contrary ... when the state is run by religion.

You see the example in many countries, like Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Iran.
You also saw it in europes medieval times, when religion still was a dominant factor for all rulers

And with freedom of religion they just tell you what you want to hear.

[Ben Kenobi]

And this is a good thing as is guarantees that all pupils, regardless from which school, have at a minimum roughly the same standards of knowledge ... this also prevents that, for example, muslims or fringe christian sects opening confessional school which teach creationism instead of ecolution

I have no problem with testing students every year. We have to do the same. But otherwise we are free to run our curriculum the way we see fit. The result is that our students regularly outperform the public schools here.

I don't see why homeschooling couldn't work along the same lines. If the kids are performing at grade level, isn't that the most important thing?

I dispute that ... the Vatican runs many charities, but it also is the head of a vast financial empire

Yes, and Germany confiscated most of the Church property. Same old. Same old. You confiscate, we rebuild.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's nice to see that the Pope is a good christian and believes in the christian ideals of loving thy neighbor. It's nice to see that the Pope is ashamed that some have been using their religion as cover for hate and discrimination.

Right. You define teaching that homosexuality is sinful is hate. Hebrews has another take on that.

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

Is discipline, 'discrimination?'

But feel free to continue saying that the Pope is wrong for tying to stop hate and discrimination. It just shows what kind of Christian you really are.

I'm not going to say that the Catechism is wrong. Francis is free to say whatever he wants, but he's not free to change what he has been given.

[Kidlicious]

Maybe some people are too dumb to see that he is pandering to liberals.

[Proteus_MST]

I have no problem with testing students every year. We have to do the same. But otherwise we are free to run our curriculum the way we see fit. The result is that our students regularly outperform the public schools here.

I don't see why homeschooling couldn't work along the same lines. If the kids are performing at grade level, isn't that the most important thing?

Homeschooling ...
well, there is a very good argument pro normal schools and against homeschooling:
People learn social behavior much much better when they are together with other children. They learn to respect others ways of living, hear about other opinions (than the ones in the narrow environment of their homes) and how to interact in a (hopefully) harmonious way with other people/children.
This cannot be learned as well by homeschooling but only by interaction with other children.

Also people who grow up in such a more diverse environment (where they grow up with other children) are harder to indoctrinate (to a religion/way of living, or even to become terrorists)

Yes, and Germany confiscated most of the Church property. Same old. Same old. You confiscate, we rebuild.

I actually don't think that the catholic church can complain.
Most "catholic clinics" that the catholic church runs in germany are so heavily subsidized by the german government, that the caztholic church only has to pay a fraction of the running costs, as almost all costs are provided for by those governmental subsidies.
Nevertheless you get the full PR effect for those hospitals (as many people believe, that "catholic hospitals" are totally run by the catholic church .. and can even impose your own rules on the selection of employees who are allowed to work there (for example no divorced or homosexual people)

I am sure the subsidies to the RCC alone (since WW2) make up more than the worth of the things that were confiscated long ago

[kentonio]

Yes, and Germany confiscated most of the Church property. Same old. Same old. You confiscate, we rebuild.

Yeah, got to keep the Vatican supplied with golden thrones, priceless artwork and lawyers for all those priests.

[Kidlicious]

Homeschooling ...
well, there is a very good argument pro normal schools and against homeschooling:
People learn social behavior much much better when they are together with other children. They learn to respect others ways of living, hear about other opinions (than the ones in the narrow environment of their homes) and how to interact in a (hopefully) harmonious way with other people/children.
This cannot be learned as well by homeschooling but only by interaction with other children.

Also people who grow up in such a more diverse environment (where they grow up with other children) are harder to indoctrinate (to a religion/way of living, or even to become terrorists)



I actually don't think that the catholic church can complain.
Most "catholic clinics" that the catholic church runs in germany are so heavily subsidized by the german government, that the caztholic church only has to pay a fraction of the running costs, as almost all costs are provided for by those governmental subsidies.
Nevertheless you get the full PR effect for those hospitals (as many people believe, that "catholic hospitals" are totally run by the catholic church .. and can even impose your own rules on the selection of employees who are allowed to work there (for example no divorced or homosexual people)

I am sure the subsidies to the RCC alone (since WW2) make up more than the worth of the things that were confiscated long ago

Educators will give you bad information about homeschooling. If you can home school it's the best.
Honestly public schools suck.

[kentonio]

Improve your schools then you dumbass. Homeschooling kids is idiotic and the kind of self centred, egotistical bull**** I'd fully expect from you.

[Kidlicious]

Improve your schools then you dumbass. Homeschooling kids is idiotic and the kind of self centred, egotistical bull**** I'd fully expect from you.

Homeschooling works. If you want to improve public schools make them more like home schooling. There's nothing good about public schools. They are just horrible.

[Ming]

Right. You define teaching that homosexuality is sinful is hate. Hebrews has another take on that.
Is discipline, 'discrimination?'
I'm not going to say that the Catechism is wrong. Francis is free to say whatever he wants, but he's not free to change what he has been given.

One more time for the reading challenged BK...

Nowhere did he say that homosexuality wasn't a sin... Nowhere did he say that the RCC should change it's views on homosexuality...
But he did say the church (some catholics) have treated gays badly... and that discrimination should end.
He is preaching a message of love, just like Jesus...

Only some people want to cloak their bigotry, hatred, and discrimination under the cover of religion...

I guess since you disagree with him, we know where you fall on the subject.

[Kidlicious]

Also, since terrorism was mentioned, all of the school shootings have been committed by kids that weren't homeschooled except Adam Lanza. But AL was really just pulled out of school my his mentally ill mother. And AL showed signs of mental illness from the age of three. So certainly homeschooling was not the cause.

[Proteus_MST]

Homeschooling works. If you want to improve public schools make them more like home schooling. There's nothing good about public schools. They are just horrible.

Cannot say this about germany ... we have a good quality public school system (and it has to be so ... parents who send their kids to private schools are rather the exception ... the majority of kids get sent to the public schools)

[Kidlicious]

Cannot say this about germany ... we have a good quality public school system (and it has to be so ... parents who send their kids to private schools are rather the exception ... the majority of kids get sent to the public schools)

What is the key to your success?

[Elok]

Homeschooling ...
well, there is a very good argument pro normal schools and against homeschooling:
People learn social behavior much much better when they are together with other children. They learn to respect others ways of living, hear about other opinions (than the ones in the narrow environment of their homes) and how to interact in a (hopefully) harmonious way with other people/children.
This cannot be learned as well by homeschooling but only by interaction with other children.

Also people who grow up in such a more diverse environment (where they grow up with other children) are harder to indoctrinate (to a religion/way of living, or even to become terrorists)

Depends what kind of socializing you're after, and what's on offer at your local public school. If a lot of the local kids are quasi-delinquent punks (and the administration may not have either the will or the means to contain them), you probably don't particularly want your kids to learn their lifestyle. They'll pick up all the bad habits, noxious influences, and unhealthy lifestyle expectations. Homeschooled children can and do socialize; in the US, "homeschool groups" are increasingly the norm, where large clusters of families will meet up fairly regularly for their kids to play and learn together. They just don't socialize with the gangbanger crowd, and "no bullying" can be actually enforced.

As for indoctrination, this thread is a fair microcosm of what America has been for some time, and is becoming more so daily: people with completely irreconcilable worldviews shouting past each other. The public schools cannot be truly "diverse"; children will learn the values of whichever social group is dominant. There can be no neutral cultural vacuum. The splitting of American society will only grow worse, and it makes no sense for you to send your kids to be indoctrinated in the enemy's values. Not to mention that homeschooled kids really do tend to do better, if you can swing it.