Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Proteus_MST]

Soup kitchen held in the parish basement = no taxation for the entire parish.

I would rather say, in mixed use buildings, just introduce a metric that determines the percentage that the charity activities take up in the business of the building.
Therefore in this case it would amount to a tax reduction and not a total tax exemption.
(similar as if Microsoft would put a soup kitchen into one of its high rise office buildings ... I am sure that you wouldn't be pro giving Microsoft property tax exemption for the whole building, just because of the soup kitchen in the basement )

I am aware. You need to read up on the Prussian Schools reorganization act.

Which is why all the Catholic schools were taken over by the Prussian state. This is compensation for what was taken.

I'm actually in favor of removing this altogether, and the restoration of all the Catholic schools that were seized.

There are catholic churches in germany ... a friend of me went to one and she was taught (among others) by nuns there.
Most pupils however go to public schools ... and I don't think this would change if the catholic church offered more catholic schools (which it would be free to do)

[rah]

I would rather say, in mixed use buildings, just introduce a metric that determines the percentage that the charity activities take up in the business of the building.
Therefore in this case it woulkd amount to a tax reduction and not a total tax exemption.

There are similar provision for home offices in the US tax code already.

[kentonio]

(First they came for the Catholics, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Catholic.
Then they came for the Muslims, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Muslim.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.)

Perhaps the most disgusting thing you've ever posted. You should be ashamed of yourself (not that I think for a second you will be). Trying to equate the genocide of the Jews with a discussion about applying equal taxes on Christian organizations is ****ing sick.

[Jon Miller]

Equal taxes are already applied, exactly the same as the secular non-profits. Including even the parts that I disagree with such as having orchards/restaurants/etc count as 'religious' or 'charity' uses.

One of the main ways that Jews have faced persecution in the last 2000 years is special taxes. It is entirely relevant.

JM

[kentonio]

Christians run America for gods sake! You can't get elected to President without professing your deep Christian faith, so the idea that the US Christian churches are somehow some poor oppressed minority is ****ing laughable.

[Kidlicious]

Perhaps the most disgusting thing you've ever posted. You should be ashamed of yourself (not that I think for a second you will be). Trying to equate the genocide of the Jews with a discussion about applying equal taxes on Christian organizations is ****ing sick.

Why doesn't it suprise me that you have no idea what the point is?

[Kidlicious]

Christians run America for gods sake! You can't get elected to President without professing your deep Christian faith, so the idea that the US Christian churches are somehow some poor oppressed minority is ****ing laughable.

Hitler was a socialist.

[Kidlicious]

Niemoller supported Adolf Hitler's rise to power at first. But when Hitler insisted on the supremacy of the state over religion, Niemöller became disillusioned.

[Proteus_MST]

Well, we see what happens when we have the contrary ... when the state is run by religion.

You see the example in many countries, like Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, Iran.
You also saw it in europes medieval times, when religion still was a dominant factor for all rulers

[giblets]

Christians run America for gods sake! You can't get elected to President without professing your deep Christian faith, so the idea that the US Christian churches are somehow some poor oppressed minority is ****ing laughable.

[Ben Kenobi]

I would rather say, in mixed use buildings, just introduce a metric that determines the percentage that the charity activities take up in the business of the building.

The church *is* a charity. By the same standards and definition of all other non-profits, they qualify.

Therefore in this case it would amount to a tax reduction and not a total tax exemption.

Unless you're taxing non-profits, the Church would be wholly exempt.

(similar as if Microsoft would put a soup kitchen into one of its high rise office buildings

Microsoft is a for profit corporation. Microsoft does in fact receive a substantial tax break for charitable donations.

... I am sure that you wouldn't be pro giving Microsoft property tax exemption for the whole building, just because of the soup kitchen in the basement )

Microsoft is a for profit corporation. The Church is a non-profit organization.

There are catholic churches in germany ... a friend of me went to one and she was taught (among others) by nuns there.

I should think so. However, the Catholic schools system should be reinstated. I'm fine with dropping the Catholic church funds, we can fund ourselves and run our own school. \

Most pupils however go to public schools ... and I don't think this would change if the catholic church offered more catholic schools (which it would be free to do)

They are not a present free to do so. That was the deal established. It was a bad deal all around and helped to create much of the problems we later saw in Germany. Germany still doesn't have true educational freedom in banning homeschooling.

[Ben Kenobi]

Perhaps the most disgusting thing you've ever posted

Really. Nice to see the gloves come off, Kentonio. Why don't you go live in Germany with Merkel?

[Ben Kenobi]

Of course I've heard it. I went to a catholic school for 8 years and was an alter boy for a few of them (so I witness many many communions). My comment was that I've never seen anyone actually turned away.

Well, that speaks volumes about Cupich. Vancouver has a pretty strong bishop.

People aren't asked for their Catholic ID card while they're standing up there. I've known many non catholics that have gone up just to try the experience.
They were never denied.

It's contrary to what the Catholic church teaches. They should not be taking communion and should have more respect.

Why were they denied in your example and how was it done?

I, myself was denied communion. For over a year. It was exactly how Jon Miller describes it. They asked me to cross my arms and receive a blessing.

[Ben Kenobi]

Denied on the first appeal... and they haven't even started another appeal. So how is the "will be struck down" going so far.

There is this thing called "Due process".

Simple fear mongering...

That is how it was done in England, in France, in Germany, in the Netherlands, in Denmark, in Sweden, and in Norway. And in America too, before the First Amendment.

Please find the quotes and context...

That Catholic businessowners would be fined, is a prediction I made back in 2005. Y'all argued the slippery slope. I was right.

Homosexuals are now allowed to get married. If you claimed that fine. If you are talking about the RCC being forced to by the government to marry gays... it hasn't come true.

Not yet. But Obama already attempted to dictate whom a Christian church can or cannot hire. He got spanked down 9-0.

If you are talking about the RCC being forced to change their stance on gays... it hasn't come true.

Not yet.

While you can say that many people think the views of the RCC should be changed, the government isn't forcing anything. Show me the laws where that is happening.

Hosanna-Tabor is the biggest intrusion yet. Obama's argument is that ministers must be hired against anti-discrimination rules, meaning that a parish could not have only men as priests.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2012/januaryweb-only/church-firing-case-supreme-court.html

Discrimination is Discrimination. The pope isn't asking people to change their views on homosexual marriages or that homosexual acts are not sinful. But he is being very CHRISTIAN by saying you shouldn't discriminate against gays, and the church owes them an apology for the way the RCC has treated them. There is NOTHING against your so called catechism that is against what he is telling Catholics.

The church owes no apology for standing up and defending her teachings surrounding marriage and homosexuality. Francis is just plain wrong here.

It is the JOB of a pharmacists to dispense legal drugs with those that have script for it.

Hardly. Pharmacists can and do refuse to dispense drugs all the time. That is their job. They aren't pill dispensers. Their job is to fill the script, if and only if it's shown that the script doesn't conflict with something else they are taking. A pharmacist can be held liable for a script conflict.

The Christian pharmacist has a religious obligation not to provide abortifacients. Now, unless you want to remove Christians entirely from the profession, they are protected by the 1st amendment.

If it against the persons conscience to perform the total job

Dispensing abortifacients are not the entirety of the job of a pharmacist. That is just one drug out of hundreds of thousands.

If he is accepting the job, he has to accept all that goes with it.

If muslim delivery drivers can be exempt from delivering alcohol, then Christian pharmacists are exempt from distributing abortifacients.

Just making stuff up, and more fearmongering.

When the same jackboots that laid the fine down attempt to shut down internet fundraising to pay the fine, we are not far, Ming. Next up is property confiscation.

[Ming]

Fearmongering... fearmongering... fearmongering...
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Catholics have been prosecuted in the past...
Fearmongering... fearmongering... fearmongering
BLAH BLAH BLAH

It's nice to see that the Pope is a good christian and believes in the christian ideals of loving thy neighbor. It's nice to see that the Pope is ashamed that some have been using their religion as cover for hate and discrimination.
It's typical for you to continue to support discrimination against gays and be proud of it. It's no surprise you want to claim he is wrong.

Who is the better Catholic here... the Pope, or you.
I think it's clear to everybody here what the answer to that question is.

But feel free to continue saying that the Pope is wrong for tying to stop hate and discrimination. It just shows what kind of Christian you really are.