Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Kidlicious]

Hm, but Rah is right ... museums and (especially) hospitals offer their services to all.
Churches offer most of their services (like marriages or funerals) only to those with their own faith (and, in case of marriages, often also only to those with the right sexual orientation [actually some american churches, like the WBC even seem to be a hewterosexuals only club]).


Therefore, maybe they should just get a tax reduction instead of a tax exemption

The issue I have is that church is a right. If you tax it, you are going to cause poor churches to close the doors.

[Berzerker]

The KKK is widely known to be virulently anti-Catholic. Why are you peddling their rubbish?

where is the citation?

and where does the Constitution say women are not people?

It makes no sense to me, taxes are only payed on profits and there are no profits involved.

The only way a tax would be implemented is as some sort of tax punishing churches... which is obviously unfair/unjust.

If profits weren't involved how did the Church become so rich? So you think its fair and just for poor people to pay taxes so churches dont? Yeah, it aint punishment if religion doesn't get subsidies from people who pay taxes. And then they tell everyone how to live and use the govt to force compliance? Gays cant be too happy about paying taxes to support the very Church trying to deny them rights.

[Kidlicious]

IMO, religion is a social good, just like roads.

We need somewhere for all the poor to go after they get clean from drugs.

[rah]

The thing about property taxes is they make people lose their property.

Damn, we're in agreement. It can happen.

IMO, religion is a social good, just like roads.

Somehow I don't get that feeling from you when you're discussing Muslims

[Proteus_MST]

The issue I have is that church is a right. If you tax it, you are going to cause poor churches to close the doors.

Perhaps a solution would be, to cooperate with the churches in order to collect church taxes from the members of a churches parish.
Similar to how it is done in germany ... parish members pay church taxes (together with income taxes and other ones) and those are sent to the parish/religous organization

This has many advantages:
1. All churches get their fair share based on the size of their parish
2. Church taxes are only paid by those who are members of a congregation (that takes part in this tax system) ... and not by non religious people ... also each member pays the taxes based on his income
3. Because there is a steady flow of income, you may tax them witrh a property tax (purely charitable institutions like soup kitchens run by churches would, of course, still be exempt from property taxes, of course
4. Not being as dependant on donations than before (but instead having the steady flow of income) might make pastors preach less Armageddon than before (as a result, american society may have less religious extremism (I fopr my part am quite sure that the reason, why christian extremism is almost non existent in german society lies in the system of church taxes)

IMHO US society would win a lot by this system ... both, religous people as well as non religous people

[rah]

Sounds good, but wouldn't that harm the poor parishes since their flock would be less capable of paying. And in all honesty, those are the parishes that are most needed.

[Kidlicious]

Damn, we're in agreement. It can happen.



Somehow I don't get that feeling from you when you're discussing Muslims

I also believe in religious freedom.

[Kidlicious]

Perhaps a solution would be, to cooperate with the churches in order to collect church taxes from the members of a churches parish.
Similar to how it is done in germany ... parish members pay church taxes (together with income taxes and other ones) and those are sent to the parish/religous organization

This has many advantages:
1. All churches get their fair share based on the size of their parish
2. Church taxes are only paid by those who are members of a congregation (that takes part in this tax system) ... and not by non religious people ... also each member pays the taxes based on his income
3. Because there is a steady flow of income, you may tax them witrh a property tax (purely charitable institutions like soup kitchens run by churches would, of course, still be exempt from property taxes, of course
4. Not being as dependant on donations than before (but instead having the steady flow of income) might make pastors preach less Armageddon than before (as a result, american society may have less religious extremism (I fopr my part am quite sure that the reason, why christian extremism is almost non existent in german society lies in the system of church taxes)

IMHO US society would win a lot by this system ... both, religous people as well as non religous people

Methodists don't preach Armaggeddon. Is that how to get large offerings?

[Proteus_MST]

Sounds good, but wouldn't that harm the poor parishes since their flock would be less capable of paying. And in all honesty, those are the parishes that are most needed.

This could be solved by multiple parishes forming a united organization (so that the church taxes are collected for all parishes within this oganization)

Actually, in germany we have 2 major religious organizations ... the catholic church (of course) and the the EKD (evangelical church of germany).

Within the EKD, most "mainstream" evangelical parishes are united. The church taxes for each member of a parish within the EKD are transferred to the EKD and they manage the finances, distributing money to charitable projects (like hospitals, retirement homes, crisis helplines and the like ... but also to the parishes themselves.
In a financial way all parishes from the EKD profit from it ... and still have the freedom to manage their parishes themselves with their budget.

We also have parishes outside of the EKD ... so called Freikirchen (free churches). AFAIK many of them also form smaller organizations (Zusammernschlüsse), where multiple parishes, that follow a similar version of christianity, unite and have shared finances (so that the richer parishes in those organizations can support the poorer ones) ... which IMHO would be a good way to solve it in the USA as well.

[Proteus_MST]

Methodists don't preach Armaggeddon. Is that how to get large offerings?

AFAIK yes ...
at least many preachers seem to see it as a patent recipe.

Even better works, to set a date for Armageddon and then collect money in order to inform the world about it.
This seems to be a gold mine ... and if a set armageddon date passes, without anything happening, just give a witty excuse and, after 1-2 years, set another date.
The people will swallow it and offer even more money.

Ask Harold Camping ... he was very successful in Armageddon date preaching

(well, I guess you have to use a Ouija board in order to ask him ... he passed away a few years ago)

[rah]

I don't know. That sounds like it might work, but it somehow seems in the US that the rich parishes would group together to leave the poor ones to do whatever. When the church closes parishes, it's usually the poor ones.

[Kidlicious]

AFAIK yes ...
at least many preachers seem to see it as a patent recipe.

Even better works, to set a date for Armageddon and then collect money in order to inform the world about it.
This seems to be a gold mine ... and if a set armageddon date passes, without anything happening, just give a witty excuse and, after 1-2 years, set another date.
The people will swallow it and offer even more money.

Ask Harold Camping ... he was very successful in Armageddon date preaching

(well, I guess you have to use a Ouija board in order to ask him ... he passed away a few years ago)

Oh yeah. Methodists actually preach against what he taught. I actually thought it was kind of judgemental. Church members love to hear the pastor preach against sins that they themselves aren't committing.

[Ben Kenobi]

But people who don't like history can also visit a museum ... or people who are homosexual ... or poeople who have no knowledge at all of history. Insofar a museum is there for the whole population.

And people who are Catholic can like other things too.

[Ben Kenobi]

But homosexuals and non catholics cannot employ the full range of services that the catholic church has to offer.
In museums the full range of services is open to everyone

Uh, last I checked no museum offers it's 'full range' with unrestricted access to the public. None of them do. All of them have restricted areas closed to the public.

Two, everyone is permitted to attend mass, but not all are permitted to partake of the eucharist.

[Ben Kenobi]

3. Because there is a steady flow of income, you may tax them witrh a property tax (purely charitable institutions like soup kitchens run by churches would, of course, still be exempt from property taxes, of course

The Church *is* a charitable organization, so should be wholly exempt.