Pope: Catholics should ask gay people for forgiveness

[Berzerker]

You ... and I ... and even the gay baker belong to groups which have done the same. That doesn't mean you, I, and the gay baker should all be judged the same as those who actually did persecute gays.

I didn't join any group responsible for centuries of persecution

[Ben Kenobi]

Comparing Catholics to the gays they've been persecuting for centuries requires knowing nothing

Perhaps you'd prefer a citation from the KKK?

[Aeson]

I didn't join any group responsible for centuries of persecution

You are American.

[Proteus_MST]

...

Catholics have been a persecuted minority their entire existence in the United States.

So catholics were forbidden to attend to service in the united states?
And were put into prisons or mental asylums when someone found out they were catholics?
And had to held their services in secret so not to raise the attention of the state?

[Berzerker]

Perhaps you'd prefer a citation from the KKK?

sure, where's a cite from the KKK persecuting Catholics yesterday?

You are American.

I didn't join American

[Aeson]

Your own criteria was that the gay baker didn't know if they had joined or were just born in. The gay baker wouldn't know if you were born American or chose to become American. In any case, you chose to remain an American when you could have instead renounced your citizenship. So you are guilty of the same thing that you are condemning the hypothetical Catholic couple of.

If however you simply do the right thing and judge people based on their merits rather than some ignorant notion you have of them ... you avoid all the absurdity and hypocrisy.

[Elok]

So catholics were forbidden to attend to service in the united states?
And were put into prisons or mental asylums when someone found out they were catholics?
And had to held their services in secret so not to raise the attention of the state?

I am not super-familiar with the history of Catholic persecution in the US, but I know there was some, largely inherited from the UK. in 1834, for example, a girls' Catholic school near Boston was looted by a mob and burned to the ground after some positively wacky rumors of abuse, including nuns whoring themselves to priests and/or Satan in the basement. IIRC one person was charged, and he got off lightly. Examine almost any popular writer from the nineteenth century, and you'll find occasional lapses into conspiracy-theory gobbledygook where the Vatican is working to destroy human freedom everywhere. There was also a steady traffic in outright propaganda, of the My True Experiences Getting Raped by Priests in a Nunnery variety. So you could say it was extended contempt and prejudice, occasionally flaring up into outright violence.

[Proteus_MST]

I am not super-familiar with the history of Catholic persecution in the US, but I know there was some, largely inherited from the UK. in 1834, for example, a girls' Catholic school near Boston was looted by a mob and burned to the ground after some positively wacky rumors of abuse, including nuns whoring themselves to priests and/or Satan in the basement. IIRC one person was charged, and he got off lightly. Examine almost any popular writer from the nineteenth century, and you'll find occasional lapses into conspiracy-theory gobbledygook where the Vatican is working to destroy human freedom everywhere. There was also a steady traffic in outright propaganda, of the My True Experiences Getting Raped by Priests in a Nunnery variety. So you could say it was extended contempt and prejudice, occasionally flaring up into outright violence.

AH O.K., didn't know about this past history of anti catholic mobs

[Elok]

It wasn't exactly analogous to gays, first because there were always more Catholics than gays and second because the RCC is an organized group. They could worship, and were free to build schools and stuff, but it was seen as revolutionary when JFK got elected in 1960 because previous Catholic presidential candidates had failed to get anywhere. Everyone assumed that a Catholic president would be an unthinking drone of the Papacy, and JFK had to give a speech explicitly promising, essentially, not to be a traitor. Likewise Catholics were historically more liberal for the simple reason that conservative Evangelical Protestants thought they were the Antichrist and wanted nothing to do with them.

It's easy to forget now how long Catholics had it bad in majority-Protestant countries. Locke's Essay Concerning Toleration explicitly excluded two groups from freedom of conscience: atheists, because he didn't consider oaths binding on the godless, and Catholics, because their loyalty to the Pope made them intrinsically treasonous. He later changed his mind about the atheists, but there's no indication of such a change towards the RCC.

All this is not to support whatever point BK is making. Only to say that, yes, Catholics have had it rough.

[Ming]

I quoted the catechism already in the thread. I'm not surprised you didn't pick up on the reference because you've never read it.

Again... you just make crap up... typical.

Pope Francis said Sunday that Christians owe apologies to gays and others who have been offended or exploited by the church, remarks that some Catholics hailed as a breakthrough in the church's tone toward homosexuality.
"I repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that they must not be discriminated against, that they must be respected and accompanied pastorally,"

Yet again... In Benland, he knows more about the Catholic Church and it's teachings than the Pope.
Maybe you should do some reading...

[Ben Kenobi]

So catholics were forbidden to attend to service in the united states?

Even in Maryland, public practice was banned after the so-called 'Glorious Revolution'. It was not reinstated until over a hundred years later with the passing of the First Amendment.

And were put into prisons or mental asylums when someone found out they were catholics?

Yes, Catholics were arrested if they failed to tithe to the Church of England.

And had to held their services in secret so not to raise the attention of the state?

Yes, to all three. Even in America.

[Ben Kenobi]

sure, where's a cite from the KKK persecuting Catholics yesterday?

The KKK is widely known to be virulently anti-Catholic. Why are you peddling their rubbish?

[Ben Kenobi]

Again... you just make crap up... typical.

LOL. Here is the catechism quote. You're so unfamiliar with it not only did you not actually cite the catechism, you're asserting that I must be lying about it.

Each of the two sexes is an image of the power and tenderness of God, with equal dignity though in a different way. The union of man and woman in marriage is a way of imitating in the flesh the Creator's generosity and fecundity: "Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh."

[rah]

Where in that quote does it say you can discriminate against them?

[Ming]

LOL. Here is the catechism quote. You're so unfamiliar with it not only did you not actually cite the catechism, you're asserting that I must be lying about it.

I've read your "quote" many times... especially since you keep posting in even when it isn't relevant to the discussion.... and where exactly in that "quote" does it say to discriminate against gays? I'm just posting what the head of your Church is saying. And he said "I repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that they must not be discriminated against, that they must be respected and accompanied pastorally,"

So what the Bakers did was against the views of the Catholic church based on what your LEADER SAYS.
They were not only violating the law of the land, they were violating the Catholic church teachings.

If you got a problem with that, take it up with your Church.

Oh, and I said you were lying because you claimed I never read your post. So stop making crap up.