Gunman kills at least 20, injures 42 in Florida gay club shooting.

[Proteus_MST]

If it were obsolete, then why are there restrictions on gun ownership?

Surely not because the US government would fear a successful rebellion ikf there were no gun restrictions.

Rather because law enforcement would be affected as well if all people (including gangs and people who are about to run amok have even easier access to weapons (maybe even fully automated ones) ... and even more people would die due to it.
Already now the USA are high in the ranking list of gun related homicides, dwarving all european countries taken together.
I am sure that most presidents don't have the aim to get the USA on tghe top of the charts (for which unrestricted access to firearms surely would be helpful).
(When I say "most presidents" I exclude some current or future presidential candidates of course ... for example Donald Trump or, if she will ever run for it, Sarah Palin )

Also I am sure that most policemen would be averse to the thought of going into certain districts armed with machineguns, because unrestricted access to firearms resulted in the gangs there to be armed with them as well.

[onodera]

So the only way to keep a gun at home is inside a safe? What's next, forcing owners to keep their guns disassembled?

No, unloaded.

[onodera]

While as sensible as this sounds, the second people talk about this you get people that will scream that this is the first step that will lead to confiscation. Just plain silly.

Of ****ing course it will lead to confiscation. If automatic actions are banned, what else will happen to all the Glocks and AR-15s? Just don't call it confiscation, call it mandatory sale.

[grumbler]

"Lack of trust"

That brings me to the thought that the 2nd amendment actually seems to be obsolete, at least with regards to the original thought behind this.

Wasn't the original thought behind the second amendment, that the population should have the means to overthrow the government, if ever there comes a time, when the government acts against the population?

Well, I am sure that with the discrepancy between nowadays military weapons technology and the technology of the weapons the american citizens can buy, I am sure that any uprising by the american citizens will be cut short, if the american military supports the government.
The only thing the weapons in possession of the american citizens will do is, to prolong the civil war and cause more losses among the citizens themselves

The Second Amendment is not obsolete, per se. It calls for a "well-regulated Militia," by which the Founders meant a militia officered by state appointees. properly uniformed and equipped, and trained to a standard not much less than that of regular soldiers. That is, of course called the National Guard today. The Second Amendment was written and ratified to ensure that the states would have countervailing force to use against a Federal usurption of power backed by a standing army.

There is no amendment concerning the rights of citizens to bear arms in self-defense because that was a thoroughly established element of the common law (as were rights like privacy, life, etc).

[Ben Kenobi]

Surely not because the US government would fear a successful rebellion ikf there were no gun restrictions.

Take a look at what you wrote and what the second amendment actually says. Now look back at the question, "Is the second amendment obsolete"? It's not a surprise to see the government curtail second amendment rights because they fear revolution. That's the whole fricken point to the second amendment.

Rather because law enforcement would be affected as well if all people (including gangs and people who are about to run amok have even easier access to weapons (maybe even fully automated ones) ... and even more people would die due to it.

The same could be said of the first regarding photography and recording of the police. That the police operate within the bounds of the constitution is more important than whether it affects law enforcement.

Already now the USA are high in the ranking list of gun related homicides, dwarving all european countries taken together.

Interesting stat, if you take Chicago and Baltimore out of the equation, the US as a whole has fewer gun related homocides than Europe. Most parts of the country are as safe or safer.

I am sure that most presidents don't have the aim to get the USA on tghe top of the charts (for which unrestricted access to firearms surely would be helpful).
(When I say "most presidents" I exclude some current or future presidential candidates of course ... for example Donald Trump or, if she will ever run for it, Sarah Palin )

Why then are two of the most restrictive areas subject to the higher rates? Suppose one noticed that teatotallers were to die more frequently from liver cancer. Would you conclude that alcohol was a causative effect?

Also I am sure that most policemen would be averse to the thought of going into certain districts armed with machineguns, because unrestricted access to firearms resulted in the gangs there to be armed with them as well.

Just as I'm sure they dread going into court. Surely you as a German understand why the constitution regulates the police and not the other way around.

[Elok]

AFAICT the 2nd is rooted in the idea, held by certain founders, that standing armies are a menace to liberty and free countries must rely on a militia--called up when needed, and disbanded promptly after. This was our general policy throughout the Revolution, and proved to be singularly idiotic and misguided. Every twelve months, just as raw militia were beginning to harden, they'd reach the end of service and skedaddle. We fought most of the war with an endless parade of rookies, which drove Washington to despair. As such, you could argue that the 2nd was a bad idea even at the time. Almost as bad as the choice, backed by the same people, to deny the Continental Congress any power to tax. So we had hyperinflation and inept soldiers. If it weren't for foreign aid we'd have lost the war.

[ZEE]

The phrase "Elok is a nerd." has taken on an almoast religious significance at this point.

It's simply out of my control.

[Elok]

I don't believe you can control your bowels or urinary sphincter, let alone anything external to your body.

[Ben Kenobi]

If it weren't for foreign aid we'd have lost the war.

I'm no fan of General Washington, but the Americans didn't lose the war because of their military call-ups. What people tend to forget in those days that people hunted, fished, trapped and shot. Everybody for the most part. Their strategy was to raise the cost of any British occupation beyond what Britain was willing to bear. Britain could have won, but they were unwilling to pay the price to subdue the Americans.

I have Pitt the Elder's correspondence at the time, and it's clear to me that he predicted the exact outcome and strategy of the Colonial Congress back in 1775.

[Bereta_Eder]

Guns are brought in from lawless zones (countries).

So it's not a question of arming yourself because some may slip in. That way you just bring the jungle in.

The question is to have law in this lawless places. This way it will benefit you as well as the people on those places.


When the right wing had turned these neighborhoods into ghettos its idea of solving the problem (which entailed purse lifting and such) was to arm greeks only.


That's the kind of moronic unprincipled fascists we had to deal it.


Luckily they are history

[Bereta_Eder]

I still remember these old days of right wing oppression.

Some far right wing party had set up shop and was distributing pamphlets for arms.

It was early in the morning so I didn't know what was happening when they basically assaulted me into giving me the pamplhet.

I boarded the bus and started looking at it "arming the greeks" and bull****.

Opposite of me a black woman was looking at me worringly.


I still remember the soulagement/relief on her face when I teared that pamphlet up and threw the pieces on the floor (ok that's littering of public places with ****)

[Ben Kenobi]

This coming from Paiktis is a laugh.

[Bereta_Eder]

so beautifull with zero murders

[Lorizael]

It might help to be more specific about what we're talking about here. What minority cultural attributes would you like to see incorporated into the dominant culture?

I don't have concrete suggestions; I'm an insulated hypocrite. But all those studies showing that, given two equally qualified candidates, the one whose minority status seeps through somehow (via name, school, previous employment, etc.) is the one who doesn't get the job--they're a consequence of the way we categorize ourselves.

[Elok]

Fair enough, though I think a lot of it is a reaction to class more than minority status per se; a lot of the names we think of as stereotypically black also have lower-class connotations. It'd be interesting to see how a Monique (black, but not especially low-class) does against a Sha'niqua (black, very low-class) and a Khaytlynne (the poor-white-trash equivalent of Sha'niqua).