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If she knew Iraq didn't have WMD's why would she vote to authorize an invasion?
Aren't we talking about the same person who still insists to this day that all of the accusations against her husband of sexual nature are just a vast right wing conspiracy? But she believed there was WMD in Iraq? Are you really that stupid?
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There were better ways to deal with that than gassing Kurds. Ironically that may be the only good thing to come out of this, having an independent state.
It aint like Saddam woke up and decided to gas some Kurds, but I agree with the sentiment, if only Turkey will stop opposing a Kurdish state.
Is those the official lies, or are they free-lance lies?
Both sides were not using poison gas at Halabja, and "the West" wasn't supplying Iraq with poison gases.
In any case, the Iraqis were engaged in genocide against the Kurds; look up the Al-Anfal campaign. It was, indeed, an international atrocity.
I didn't mean both sides used gas at that battle, only that both sides were using it in their war. Where did the gas come from if not the west? Thats how we and the weapons inspectors knew what Iraq had, the west had receipts. And the Kurds were more aligned with Iran in that war, Saddam wasn't attacking them for no reason. And the west didn't care much at the time, it was only after photos of disfigured children hit the world did the west raise a fuss - bad Saddam!
That's not even an original lie. He's just copying a common right-wing theme in California farm country that has been around since the first ag user curtailments from the California Water Project and the different federal canal projects decades ago.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
EDIT: Note that Hillary was opposed to gay marriage something like five years ago (as was Obama). Our voters really do have very short memories for things not involving criminal misbehavior or sexual misconduct.
If they change their minds in a direction we like (or don't oppose) then nobody cares. With voters, it's always a question of "what are you going to claim to do for me now?"
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
Popular support for that war was pretty high. We knew we could kick Saddam's ass, but most Americans can't find Iraq on a map, let alone understand the nuances of trying to occupy a country with a non-western culture and major ethnic, tribal, sectarian and regional hostilities going back 15 times longer than the US has existed as a country.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
If they change their minds in a direction we like (or don't oppose) then nobody cares. With voters, it's always a question of "what are you going to claim to do for me now?"
Well, she's presumptively changed her mind about the invasion now, so my point stands.
Re: Trump (this is in general, not to you specifically, mtg), I think it's significant that he has repeatedly expressed admiration for Putin (which Putin reciprocates). I think this is for much the same reason that Hitler and Stalin initially liked each other: they think along very similar lines, and respect each other for their shared worldview. In this case, instead of being totalitarian psychopaths, they're merely authoritarian gangster pluto-klepto-crats. Does anyone suppose a President Trump (God forbid) would act much like Putin, with the same power structure of stacked quasi-feudal networks of social looters and parasites?
“It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see.”
Well, she's presumptively changed her mind about the invasion now, so my point stands.
Re: Trump (this is in general, not to you specifically, mtg), I think it's significant that he has repeatedly expressed admiration for Putin (which Putin reciprocates). I think this is for much the same reason that Hitler and Stalin initially liked each other: they think along very similar lines, and respect each other for their shared worldview. In this case, instead of being totalitarian psychopaths, they're merely authoritarian gangster pluto-klepto-crats. Does anyone suppose a President Trump (God forbid) would act much like Putin, with the same power structure of stacked quasi-feudal networks of social looters and parasites?
The fundamental difference is that Putin is focused and competent. Their world views may be similar in terms of playing to populist/jingoist thems and their admiration of authoritarian methods, but that's the limit. Trump is simply out of his league with some vague isolationist tendencies, while Putin is relentlessly driven to expand Russian power and influence on a geopolitical and military basis. Putin doesn't have an economy to handle, if he had the means to do so. Trump does, but if he does get elected, he'll likely trigger a global recession. Once in office, simply repeating default talk on the US debt will suffice for that.
Putin (and Kim) claim to like Trump because he's a useful fool - if Trump backs the US off the geopolitical stage with his mix of isolationism, populism and jingoism, then Russia, the DPRK and China (and others) will undoubtedly attempt to expand their influence.
When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
I don't think Putin is expanding Russian influence so much as he is expanding Putin's influence. Obviously there's some overlap, but if he were sincerely interested in making his country stronger, as opposed to seeing how many lampposts he could pee on, Russia would be a much happier country right now, even allowing for Putin's fondness for despotism. History has seen a surprising number of honest and constructive despots. Putin is quite obviously neither.
Nor do I believe Trump is stupid, exactly. He's well on his way towards the one goal we know he believes in, namely promoting or drawing attention to the Trump "brand" to the farthest extent possible regardless of any other consequences. This goal is perverse, horrible and pointless, but he seems to be doing rather well at it. That he would likely ruin the country would be as beside the point as the bankruptcy of his various gaudy enterprises. He wanted to grunt and strain and squeeze out the biggest gold-flecked turd in history all over Atlantic City, and by god he did it. Now it's done, and he's bored with it, so it's time to move on to the most enormous bully pulpit the world has to offer.
I think Putin has done quite a bit to strengthen Russia, IMO.
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Popular support for that war was pretty high. We knew we could kick Saddam's ass, but most Americans can't find Iraq on a map, let alone understand the nuances of trying to occupy a country with a non-western culture and major ethnic, tribal, sectarian and regional hostilities going back 15 times longer than the US has existed as a country.
The support was manufactured just like Papa Bush's war in Kuwait... I doubt people woke up on 9/12 and thought invading Iraq was the proper response
Hillary saw the writing on the wall, the Bush crowd were gonna invade and she'd pay a political price if she got in their way. So she joined them and spread the lies and msnbc dumped Phil Donahue because he opposed the invasion, too much bias I guess
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