Irish Marriage Equality Referendum Draws Near

[giblets]

Why are you asking me?

[loinburger]

Ok. So why is sex different from marriage?

This question is absurd. You can have sex without marriage and you can have marriage without sex, hence they're different things.

[Sava]

BK's questions seem like the kinds of things a four year old would ask.

[loinburger]

BK: Married people sometimes jointly own homes, therefore unmarried people shouldn't be allowed to jointly own homes.
Everybody else (with the possible exceptions of Kidicious, Slowwhand, and the usual gang of idiots): That's retarded. You're retarded.
BK: Ok. So why is home ownership different from marriage?

[Ben Kenobi]

This question is absurd. You can have sex without marriage and you can have marriage without sex, hence they're different things.

If you're old enough to have sex - you should be old enough to marry. Don't you see how separating the two creates issues?

[loinburger]

If you're old enough to have sex - you should be old enough to marry.

Why? The two acts are not inextricably linked, so their ages of consent need not be inextricably linked.

[Uncle Sparky]

If you're old enough to have sex - you should be old enough to marry. Don't you see how separating the two creates issues?

So, are you planning to marry a 12 year old boy? You don't have to answer...

[Ben Kenobi]

The two acts are not inextricably linked

Finally. I was waiting for that. IF marriage and sex are not inextricably linked, then what is the difference between a wife and a female roommate? Marriage is about sex - it is about the union of the husband and wife in marriage. Without sex there is no marriage.

[giblets]

Did Mary have sex with Joseph?

[Aeson]

IF marriage and sex are not inextricably linked, then what is the difference between a wife and a female roommate?

Being married is one obvious difference.

[loinburger]

Finally. I was waiting for that. IF marriage and sex are not inextricably linked, then what is the difference between a wife and a female roommate? Marriage is about sex - it is about the union of the husband and wife in marriage. Without sex there is no marriage.

First off, even if you believe that marriage is all about sex, that does not mean that sex is all about marriage - there is a lot of legal and cultural rigamarole that is attached to marriage that is not attached to sex, as has already been pointed out to you in this thread. Secondly, the standard Catholic wedding vows don't even mention sex, and if you're claiming that the Catholic church will annul a marriage if one or both partners suffers genital damage and is unable to engage in sex then you're going to have to back up that claim (and if you're not making that claim then you're talking out your ass by saying that marriage is all about sex) - Catholic couples are only required to have sex one time in order for a marriage to be valid, so it's ludicrous to claim that marriage is about sex.

I've noticed that this is one of the logic mistakes that you make most often - you'll assert that an implication holds, and then you'll assume that if the implication holds that the inverse also holds ("Socrates is a man, therefore all men are Socrates"). This is high school level logic and it's embarrassing.

[N35t0r]

Some crap BK wrote

Sorry, if you're not going to even bother reading what I read, **** off.

[N35t0r]

Finally. I was waiting for that. IF marriage and sex are not inextricably linked, then what is the difference between a wife and a female roommate? Marriage is about sex - it is about the union of the husband and wife in marriage. Without sex there is no marriage.

You can be married for 50 years having ony had sex once. you can have a roommate of the opposite sex and **** her twice per day, and not be married to her.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ok. So we've got the two traditional arguments here.

One, Nestor's, "You can have sex outside of marriage, ergo sex cannot be an essential component of marriage". This is like arguing, "You put Ice cream in banana splits," which means that a milkshake doesn't require ice cream.

First off, even if you believe that marriage is all about sex, that does not mean that sex is all about marriage

Never argued that. I'm arguing that sex is an essential component of marriage.

- there is a lot of legal and cultural rigamarole that is attached to marriage that is not attached to sex, as has already been pointed out to you in this thread.

You're assuming this to be true, which is the question at hand. Why should we treat the two of them differently? Why should we say that you can have sex at 16, but not marry at 16. If you say, "because society attaches stuff to sex that it doesn't to marriage", I argue, "why does society do this?", and perhaps more tellingly, "why did society change"? This wasn't the case before.

I'm arguing that the two involve significant obligations and responsibilities.

Secondly, the standard Catholic wedding vows don't even mention sex

Thus the marriage bond has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved. This bond, which results from the free human act of the spouses and their consummation of the marriage, is a reality, henceforth irrevocable, and gives rise to a covenant guaranteed by God's fidelity. The Church does not have the power to contravene this disposition of divine wisdom.146

Conjugal love involves a totality, in which all the elements of the person enter - appeal of the body and instinct, power of feeling and affectivity, aspiration of the spirit and of will. It aims at a deeply personal unity, a unity that, beyond union in one flesh, leads to forming one heart and soul; it demands indissolubility and faithfulness in definitive mutual giving; and it is open to fertility. In a word it is a question of the normal characteristics of all natural conjugal love, but with a new significance which not only purifies and strengthens them, but raises them to the extent of making them the expression of specifically Christian values.

No sex, no marriage, no union of husband and wife.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm

, and if you're claiming that the Catholic church will annul a marriage if one or both partners suffers genital damage and is unable to engage in sex then you're going to have to back up that claim

You do this quite often. If the argument is that "sex is a integral part of marriage", presumably the counter argument would be, "would the Catholic church annul a marriage where husband and wife do not have sex? Yes.

Question asked, question answered.

Catholic couples are only required to have sex one time in order for a marriage to be valid, so it's ludicrous to claim that marriage is about sex.

Why is it ludicrious? If sex wasn't a requirement of marriage, why would the church require consummation?

[Ben Kenobi]

Being married is one obvious difference.

"What is the difference between men and women?"

"They are called men, duh".