Irish Marriage Equality Referendum Draws Near

[Ben Kenobi]

to which marriage is ordered by its nature

To which I quote again. And in all my earlier citations about why conjugality is crucial to marriage.

[Ben Kenobi]

If you accept the gospels as historically accurate, she was married. Either she had sex or you can be married without having sex.

*sigh*.

As a Jew she could also have her marriage dissolved. Joseph almost did exactly that. There's a reason why Jesus told the crowd in Matthew 19, that marriage was for life, and that the law of marriage was the same as it was intended to be - between one man and one woman for life. Which is not the same as the Mosaic Law, the Law which Mary was under.

She was not a Christian, Gribbler.

[Ben Kenobi]

http://catholic.nowealthbutlife.com/valid-consummated/

Why not quote the Vatican, Loinburger? Could it be that the teaching isn't magisterial?

http://catholic.nowealthbutlife.com/aboutme/

But wait, there's more! Geesh, I probably have more theological education than she does.

If we're going to argue the catechism, let's stick to what the catechism actually says. And not self-professed bloggers who never claim that they are magisterial in the slightest.

[giblets]

*sigh*.

As a Jew she could also have her marriage dissolved. Joseph almost did exactly that. There's a reason why Jesus told the crowd in Matthew 19, that marriage was for life, and that the law of marriage was the same as it was intended to be - between one man and one woman for life. Which is not the same as the Mosaic Law, the Law which Mary was under.

She was not a Christian, Gribbler.

So you've realized that marriages aren't necessarily Catholic or even Christian? Well duh.

So we've established that you can be married without having sex and you can have sex without being married.

[giblets]

Ok. So why is sex different from marriage?

What a stupid question

[giblets]

I guess Ben thinks Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc. don't have "real" marriages since Christians get to decide what a marriage is

[Ben Kenobi]

So you've realized that marriages aren't necessarily Catholic or even Christian? Well duh.

I'm arguing what makes marriage distinct from other relationships is conjugality.

So we've established that you can be married without having sex and you can have sex without being married

Just like one can have ice cream with a sundae. Doesn't mean that milkshakes don't contain ice cream. This is a terrible argument. Can we at least graduate to the point that because X doesn't contain Y, doesn't mean that Z doesn't necessarily contain Y?

What a stupid question

That you can't answer it makes it a question smarter than gribbler.

[Ben Kenobi]

Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc. don't have "real" marriages since Christians get to decide what a marriage is

Interesting. I would infer then that you support forced marriages and polygamy. No, Islam doesn't have marriage.

[giblets]

I'm arguing what makes marriage distinct from other relationships is conjugality.



Just like one can have ice cream with a sundae. Doesn't mean that milkshakes don't contain ice cream. This is a terrible argument. Can we at least graduate to the point that because X doesn't contain Y, doesn't mean that Z doesn't necessarily contain Y?

So milkshakes = marriage
ice cream = sex
And Mary and Joseph had a milkshake without ice cream.
How do you distinguish their marriage from "other relationships"?

[Ben Kenobi]

I'm more curious to your previous statement that Islamic marriage should qualify as marriage when they are polygamous rather than revisiting the 'milkshakes don't have ice cream because sundaes do.'

[giblets]

Interesting. I would infer then that you support forced marriages and polygamy. No, Islam doesn't have marriage.

That's a bizarre claim, you know biblical patriarchs were described as having multiple wives right?

[Ben Kenobi]

That's a bizarre claim, you know biblical patriarchs were described as having multiple wives right?

Yes, and? They also worshipped a golden calf. Just because the biblical patriarchs did it doesn't make it a moral action.

Weren't you arguing that the argument that polygamy will follow gay marriage as baseless? Seems you've made an important concession and affirmed one of my points - if you take out conjugality, there's no need to limit marriage to just 2 people.

[giblets]

Yes, and? They also worshipped a golden calf. Just because the biblical patriarchs did it doesn't make it a moral action.

Weren't you arguing that the argument that polygamy will follow gay marriage as baseless? Seems you've made an important concession and affirmed one of my points - if you take out conjugality, there's no need to limit marriage to just 2 people.

They were described as having multiple wives, ergo polygamy is a form of marriage if you accept the Bible as an accurate description of reality. I didn't endorse polygamy.

[loinburger]

To which I quote again. And in all my earlier citations about why conjugality is crucial to marriage.

Question: is an unconsummated marriage invalid? If your answer is "yes" then you are contradicting canon law, and if your answer is "no" then you're admitting that sex is not a necessary part of marriage. Claiming that sex is a goal in marriage? Okay, I'll buy that, same as home ownership is a goal in marriage; however, a valid marriage need not include sex or home ownership.

[N35t0r]

*sigh*.

As a Jew she could also have her marriage dissolved. Joseph almost did exactly that. There's a reason why Jesus told the crowd in Matthew 19, that marriage was for life, and that the law of marriage was the same as it was intended to be - between one man and one woman for life. Which is not the same as the Mosaic Law, the Law which Mary was under.

She was not a Christian, Gribbler.

Pretty much your entire argument is that there can be only one marriage. If you allow for Mary's marriage being subject to other marriage laws, then you should be OK for non-catholic marriages to be subject to other laws as well.