Sharia Law at Wal Mart [Trigger Warning: People Arguing With Ben]

[N35t0r]

Did they send representatives to the Hague convention on human rights? if they didn't then genociding them was OK.

[Sava]

Where does the bible state "If a black person robs you, you get to hate black people as a bloc"

Sounds like something that ****head Paul would say but I'm not a Christian, I don't know scripture. Do you?

He doesn't.

[Ben Kenobi]

Weren't there amalekites in the promised land?

No, it was on the way there.

If these people saw the israelites and heard of their plan to conquer this promised land, wouldn't that make them the defenders?

If people wanting to pass through a land are invaders, then shouldn't that justify killing all foreign travelers?

no golden rule in your book?

I don't expect non-Christians to live by Christian principles. Jews had lex talionis.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well, I am not actually an atheist ... my faith comes closest to all living beings carrying a certain divine spark in themselves that unites them all ... you may call it one kind of Uber-Soul. Religions are helpful if they help yourself grow spiritually (in this I am close to the unitarian universalist).

Ok. Of the presuppositions that leaves the question, why did God teach his principles to the Jews?

religion negatively affects the mental and/or physical well-being and growth of other members of society

How does one define, 'negative' and 'positive'? You're also assuming that suffering plays no role in redemption, which is contrary to Christian teachings.

Examples for this would be the campaigns of certain parts of christianity against homosexual marriages and against teaching of the theory of evolution in the classroom.

So what you're saying is that God is good except where he disagrees with you.

What parts of the Christian faith would you keep?

these claims of a moral superiority, on basis of their own holy book.

You're claiming that your morals are superior. Why would you attack other claims of moral superiority when they conflict with what you believe? IF the Christians are right then you have no cause to argue that your morals are in fact superior. IF you don't like the Christians doing it, why are you doing it to them? Just because you disagree with them doesn't mean that our beliefs are wrong.

deep amoral stories you can find in the old testament.

My question is this. If your religion exactly follows your convictions, how is it any different from making yourself God?

[Ben Kenobi]

It's generally about countering the incredible one-eyedness of the religious right.

Ah, so it's ok to be anti-Semitic so long as you're liberal.

[Ben Kenobi]

The fourth option is pretty much the only acceptable one if you're going to claim that god is good and (more or less) unchanging. It's also not that far-fetched of an explanation: ancient people (and, to be fair, modern people as well) had a habit of slaughtering each other - no doubt my ancestors did some evil and nasty **** as well, but this is only a problem for me morally if I defend their actions by e.g. claiming that the god they worshiped and that I worship ordered the evil and nasty ****.

Ah. So what pisses you off is the belief that God commanded the Israelites, not the genocide in itself. Presumably the invocation of Baal would make it ok?

they'd have no reason to fabricate a casus belli

Methinks were it not the Jews on the other end you'd be arguing that self-defense was an acceptable option for a smaller, peaceful tribe.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why are you a Christian if your morality is incongruent with the ideals of Christianity? Seriously, the only reason the church doesn't kick you out is because pedophiles need hush money and you credulously tithe like the idiot you are.

Are you suggesting that Jews ought to live by Christian principles? Jews have lex talionis not Christ.

Like, if I was ranking the reasons you're a Christian, where would I put "Get to be a ****head to other people because they were a ****head to me"

Yeah, if that were the case, you'd be serving a 4 month ban for racism, but we all know that you can't be racist to White people.

[loinburger]

Ah. So what pisses you off is the belief that God commanded the Israelites, not the genocide in itself. Presumably the invocation of Baal would make it ok?

No, what pisses me off is that you're defending a genocide. If a worshiper of Baal were here defending a genocide then I'd also be pissed off.

Methinks were it not the Jews on the other end you'd be arguing that self-defense was an acceptable option for a smaller, peaceful tribe.

Why would you think this? Please point out a time in the past that I have defended a genocide.

Ben, let's cut through all of the bull****: under what circumstances do you believe that a genocide would be morally justified, and why? I'll go ahead and answer my own question: genocide is never morally justified, because genocide requires the murder of those who are unquestionably innocent. Your turn.

[Aeson]

BK justifying genocide and pretending other people are justifying genocide when clearly they aren't ... not really surprising.

[Berzerker]

No, it was on the way there.

If people wanting to pass through a land are invaders, then shouldn't that justify killing all foreign travelers?

So there were no amalekites in the promised land? That sounds quite dubious... Who was there? Friends of the amalekites? Would you let strangers walk across your land on their way to kill your friendly neighbors? Did the amalekites attack when the Israelites ignored their request to leave their land?

I don't expect non-Christians to live by Christian principles.

But you're the Christian and you dont believe in the golden rule, you believe in doing to others what they do to you... including genocide!

[MRT144]

what does ben get out of lying to himself.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, what pisses me off is that you're defending a genocide. If a worshiper of Baal were here defending a genocide then I'd also be pissed off

Then why is the special relationship of the Jews and YHWH and the directions of YWHW especially odious to you? If this is the case, then what the Israelites were told to do is irrelevant. Genocide is genocide and that's my point.

Why would you think this? Please point out a time in the past that I have defended a genocide.

Whenever the victim is someone who's not white, westerner, Christian, or Jew, you've defended them. Whenever they are, you've made the point that they deserved what they got. Why is this?

Ben, let's cut through all of the bull****: under what circumstances do you believe that a genocide would be morally justified, and why?

I've stated that Israel has a right to travel in peace and a right to live in peace in Israel. This right does not supercede the rights of others to live there, but it does supercede their right to lob rockets into kindergartens. If a nation is sufficiently aggressive as to attempt to kill all the Jews, then I would argue that Israel has every right to defend themselves. If enough of the people attacking the Jews die before they learn to stop attacking them, then that's on them, not the Jews.

I speak as a Christian of German extraction. Technically this would mean that a Jew would be justified in attacking me the same way that my tribe attacked them. I have no cause to tell them that they must act differently than what we judged to them.

Given that the Amalekites were not innocent and attempted genocide, do you believe that it's ok to attempt to kill them?

[MRT144]

Cite where in the New Testament, ya know, the one Christians think is the primo ****, Jesus, God, hell, anyone, is like "Ya know, he who tried to genocide you get genocided themselves, amirite. heh heh, this cretin in 2015 is going to really need this to sustain the delusion that he isn't a weak and fragile person who is too proud to admit when he's wrong."

[Ben Kenobi]

So there were no amalekites in the promised land?

They lived in Edom, in what is now Southern Jordan. Where the Israelites would have to pass through in order to reach the promised land.

Who was there?

Before the Israelites? Many different tribes.

Would you let strangers walk across your land on their way to kill your friendly neighbors?

Why do you assume they would be friends of the Amalekites if the Amalekites regularly attacked peaceful travelers? Would they not be more likely to be enemies, given that they occupied more fertile ground? I'm curious why you assume everyone who wasn't an Israelite were all best buds at the Pagan party. Perhaps they had a secret handshake.

Did the amalekites attack when the Israelites ignored their request to leave their land?

Do you think it's justifiable to kill peaceful foreign travelers?

But you're the Christian and you dont believe in the golden rule, you believe in doing to others what they do to you... including genocide!

I said specifically that I could not expect them to follow Christian principles because they are not Christian. Do you routinely expect Christians to follow principles that you yourself do not proscribe?

[Ben Kenobi]

Cite where in the New Testament, ya know, the one Christians think is the primo ****, Jesus, God, hell, anyone, is like "Ya know, he who tried to genocide you get genocided themselves, amirite. heh heh, this cretin in 2015 is going to really need this to sustain the delusion that he isn't a weak and fragile person who is too proud to admit when he's wrong."

Curious that you regard citations of the Bible as authoritative, while at the same time professing that it's worthless.

Choose.