Sharia Law at Wal Mart [Trigger Warning: People Arguing With Ben]

[loinburger]

Where by "actual truth" he means "Catholic dogma," for example the common narrative is that pedophilia is immoral

[Ben Kenobi]

I don´t think he did ... I think the bible is just a propagandist work of humans

Which leaves the epistomelogical question, if the Bible is just made up, how do you know what it is that God wants, and how does one distinguish that between what you want?

Which is, why they also dropped all indices of the rest of the former polytheist pantheon in which YHWH was just a god among others.

Problem is that you're assuming that what they wrote after the exile wasn't also prompted by God. And that they didn't rely upon older, no longer extant works in compiling the OT after the exile? I could see the compilation being made then, as it was later in the Septuagint. The problem is we don't have the sources to prove this one way or another.

Actually, the morality of the old testament bible reflects exactly the morality you can find everywhere throughout all ancient tribes ... it is nothing special that you can only find in the jews ... or something where you would say that it can only be part of an eternal all loving god

There's some parallels, but I believe the only near contemporary that's similar is the Code of Hammurabi. Most tribes didn't have Lex Talionis, and Leviticus is actually quite restrained for the period of 1200 BC. But again, this changes if you believe it's all an invention of 500 BC - which the existence of the Hittites, and the pharoanic records indicate otherwise. It matches up well with what we do know for the period, so even if it were compiled in 500 BC, which is a reasonable presupposition - it's not out of the question that the Pentateuch was compiled much earlier.

That I argue with biblical passages is just a concession to your belief that the bible is an accurate documentation of history.

Well, sure. But that raises the question if the history is accurate, isn't it an assumption of yours that the theodicy must be wrong?

The buddhists have the concept that a lot of suffering is brought upon ourselvs by ourselves ... which IMHO is a good concept.

Why would you conclude this is a good concept? If someone is poor, would you argue that they were poor because they were bad people?

I also don´t subscribe to the concept of "original sin" ... therefore I think that we are only resonsible for the sins we commit in our curent lives.

The problem is that not all suffering is brought about by bad decisions. Some, yes, but sometimes even blameless people end up suffering. Job talks about this, fwiw.

the stories in the old testament IMHO rather describe a personality that I wouldn´t want to meet (in human form) in real life.

Given what is said of God's majesty, and that no one can see him and live, I'm not sure this is a bad thing.

Nope, definitely not my definition of "good"

So how do you determine what is the good?

Those that try to make life among humans better ... like the prohibition to stealing and killing.

But not, "love the lord your God" or "do not covet?" That's 2 of the ten commandments. Why those two and not the other 8?

Not the golden rule, because this could be taken by various groups as an "excuse" to commit Vendettas ...
your forefather killed one of our forefathers, therefore we will kill one of your family
(afterwards followed by the other family now having an excuse to kill, again, one of the other family and so on).

Which is what Christ talks about later. The problem is this - it's a package. Taking the parts you like because you don't like other parts is an indication that something is wrong with you and right with the Good Book. Since people sin, even when they get it right, they are off the mark. This is why you shouldn't rely solely on your own conscience to form your understanding of what is right and wrong.

I don´t think that defining your own morals is anything that make you divine.

What's the basis behind your morals? What makes them the right morals, enough to condemn Christians when they differ from what you believe? Is it what society teaches you?

The idea that you don´t have to think about / evaluate morals, because everything god (or one of his representatives on earth) orders is automatically good, no matter how evil an action may appear, IMHO is just a lazymans copout.

I'm not asking that. All you've done is say, 'I believe this to be true" which is not intellectually rigorous in the slightest. Who told you these things were true?

I also don´t think that my (or nowadays) morals are the Optimum that cannot be improved any further

If I were to argue that society derives a benefit from marriage between one man and one woman, and that this benefit is something that shouldn't be discarded by a society unwilling to pay the price of said commitment, what would you argue against that?

but I definitely think that they are vastly superior to the morals depicted in the bible.

Why? Because you say so? What's backing your morality?

Lets say a large group of muslims appears at the mexican-american border

Muslims have already conducted terrorist attacks on American soil. Answer the question please, prior to the Amalekite attack on the Israelites, when did the Israelites, who were slaves escaping Egypt, attack anyone?

[giblets]

"Discrimination is a world-wide thing. It has to be opposed everywhere. That is why I feel the Negro’s plight here is linked with that of the oppressed around the globe. The big answer, as I see it, is the education of the white man. The white man is the problem. It is the same as with the Nazis. We must change the white attitudes. That is where it lies." -Margaret Sanger

According to Kidicious this would be racist against white people.

https://sangerpapers.wordpress.com/tag/racism/

[Ben Kenobi]

No, she said she didn't want people to think she believed that. Why would a black minister help her dispel such a rumor if she was in fact a racist?

Interesting. I regard her confession that she believes that black people are a burden on society and should be exterminated as evidence that she should be rejected by any thinking liberal. I'm not surprised to see everyone rush to her defense because they agree with her. It's plain as day what she believes and what the abortion clinics have done over the years. You are aware of the ratios? Something like around half of all babies aborted in America are black.

That's the largest genocide, now around some 25 million people in history. Anywhere. Larger than the holocaust.

[giblets]

Interesting. I regard her confession that she believes that black people are a burden on society and should be exterminated as evidence that she should be rejected by any thinking liberal. I'm not surprised to see everyone rush to her defense because they agree with her. It's plain as day what she believes and what the abortion clinics have done over the years. You are aware of the ratios? Something like around half of all babies aborted in America are black.

That's the largest genocide, now around some 25 million people in history. Anywhere. Larger than the holocaust.

No such "confession" exists. It's also not "genocidal" for a black woman to choose to have an abortion.

[MRT144]

Interesting. I regard her confession that she believes that black people are a burden on society and should be exterminated as evidence that she should be rejected by any thinking liberal. I'm not surprised to see everyone rush to her defense because they agree with her. It's plain as day what she believes and what the abortion clinics have done over the years. You are aware of the ratios? Something like around half of all babies aborted in America are black.

That's the largest genocide, now around some 25 million people in history. Anywhere. Larger than the holocaust.

You care about black fetuses until they're born, then you want the fathers incarcerated and the women denied any help. You're a ****ing sadist, get out.

[kentonio]

It's plain as day what she believes and what the abortion clinics have done over the years. You are aware of the ratios? Something like around half of all babies aborted in America are black.

She was anti-abortion on the same grounds as you, you ****ing idiot.

[MRT144]

She was anti-abortion on the same grounds as you, you ****ing idiot.

History Major

[loinburger]

Guys, just to review, here's how the thread has gone:

BK: Genocide is awesome as long as god says it's awesome
Everybody Else: That's kind of a ****ty moral system you've got there
BK: Oh yeah? Well some dead lady also condoned genocide!

BK, please justify your inclusion of Sanger in thread - this is about you condoning genocide, not about whatever the hell you think Sanger said or believed. This derail of yours is even more blatant and retarded than usual.

[Ben Kenobi]

No such "confession" exists. It's also not "genocidal" for a black woman to choose to have an abortion.

What about a white abortionist to kill one?

[Ben Kenobi]

You care about black fetuses until they're born, then you want the fathers incarcerated and the women denied any help. You're a ****ing sadist, get out.

Don't they already incarcerate men if they refuse to pay child support? I don't see how that's justified in a culture that sanctions abortion.

[Ben Kenobi]

BK, please justify your inclusion of Sanger in thread - this is about you condoning genocide, not about whatever the hell you think Sanger said or believed. This derail of yours is even more blatant and retarded than usual. \

I wasn't the one who made it about abortion. You did. Post 301. Prior to that, I'd said nothing about abortion whatsoever. You decided to make that argument. I simply agreed with you and stated that if you consider killing the unborn to be genocide, then what do you make of the current black genocide?

[giblets]

What about a white abortionist to kill one?

At a black patient's request? No, that's not "genocide".

[N35t0r]

Don't they already incarcerate men if they refuse to pay child support? I don't see how that's justified in a culture that sanctions abortion.

Because you're too stupid to understand their justification for allowing abortion.

[Ben Kenobi]

At a black patient's request? No, that's not "genocide".

Interesting values. It's ok now for a while person to kill a black person without the consent of that particular black person, even at the toll of 10s of thousands over the course of their career and not be called a perpetrator of genocide?