what happened to the großrossiya thread

[kentonio]

As I said NATO will do squat because in the event of a turkish - russian war, there will simply be no NATO.

A Russian invasion of a NATO state is the entire reason why NATO exists in the first place. It doesn't matter if its Turkey, Greece or frikkin Iceland, any attack on a NATO member state would result in the mobilization of the entire alliance. It has to because otherwise NATO doesn't exist any more as you said, and if you think any European nation would accept the disintegration of its mutual defense pact in the face of an aggressive Russia then you're dreaming.

****, even with the western public currently about as anti-war as they've ever been, a Russian invasion is about the one thing absolutely guaranteed to provide mass public support for war.

[Bereta_Eder]

Your dellusions are certaintly entertaining (no offense kentonio)

And oerdin, go suck an egg! (or whatever it is weasels eat)

[PLATO]

No delusions. You really don't understand the thinking of the average westerner when it comes to NATO.

[Dinner]

Love and kisses, Paiktis.

[NICE MOBIUS]

Entertained by all the adolescent dick waving!

[kentonio]

It's nothing to do with dick waving, its to do with remembering that in our grandparents time tens of millions of people were murdered in a brutal conflict that ripped the civilized world to pieces, and which started largely because acts of naked aggression were tolerated by those with power.

If you genuinely think a repeat of that is impossible, then you're incredibly naive.

[rah]

I think of NATO as just another version of MAD.

[PLATO]

Facts are not dick waiving NM. It seems that everytime someone disagrees with you views that you resort to that kind of thing.

It seems pretty clear to me that every single government in NATO has made a point to say that they will support Article 5. It is unclear, however, where there is any evidence that they wouldn't. I would be interested in looking at evidence to the contrary. Or is your resistance to fact the only dick waiving going on?

[rah]

And one could argue that the fear of A5 is what stopped Putin from instant retaliation for Turkey's offense. He's looking for a way to do it that he can justify.

[Bereta_Eder]

No delusions. You really don't understand the thinking of the average westerner when it comes to NATO.

It is entertaining to see how some people from certain countries claim to speak for the enterity of an area and not only that but claim to have a clear idea of what others think.

Russia is outmanouveuring you in every turn.

The only reason putin has not so far made turkey totally his b!tch, is because, still, the two countries have much more to lose than gain.

[Bereta_Eder]

Love and kisses, Paiktis.

[rah]

If you think that A5 doesn't play into his thinking, you're the clueless one.

All his outmaneuvering has included doing nothing that could trigger A5. As far as I'm concerned that has demonstrated just how smart he really is.

[Bereta_Eder]

It's nothing to do with dick waving, its to do with remembering that in our grandparents time tens of millions of people were murdered in a brutal conflict that ripped the civilized world to pieces, and which started largely because acts of naked aggression were tolerated by those with power.

If you genuinely think a repeat of that is impossible, then you're incredibly naive.

However Russia is not Germany and history seldom really repeats itself as a farce.

I will agree with you though that the only reason (on paper) for NATO's existance was to counter Russia, or rather the nation-ideology of the former USSR.

[Bereta_Eder]

If you think that A5 doesn't play into his thinking, you're the clueless one.

All his outmaneuvering has included doing nothing that could trigger A5. As far as I'm concerned that has demonstrated just how smart he really is.

I never said it doesn't play into his thinking.
I'm saying that if a turkish-russian war errupts NATO will cease to exist.

Two different things.

[rah]

And we're saying that NATO's existence will prevent that from happening. Both could be true