what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Bereta_Eder]

They are probably true. For now.

[rah]

I tend to agree. Something else would have to happen I think

[kentonio]

I never said it doesn't play into his thinking.
I'm saying that if a turkish-russian war errupts NATO will cease to exist.

Two different things.

And you're wrong. NATO will fight if it ever comes to a war of self defense, and make no mistake an attack on any NATO member really is an attack on them all.

[Kidlicious]

Alliances end.

[NICE MOBIUS]

It's nothing to do with dick waving, its to do with remembering that in our grandparents time tens of millions of people were murdered in a brutal conflict that ripped the civilized world to pieces, and which started largely because acts of naked aggression were tolerated by those with power.

If you genuinely think a repeat of that is impossible, then you're incredibly naive.

What I'm talking about is this incessant "but we've got 656,551 soldiers and you've only got 656,550, and our tanks are shinier too, so nyahnyahnyah!".

It's hilarious listening to a bunch of wannabe armchair generals reading off some stats from some pet website or other: "Look at me I know lots of boring crap about guns and tanks etc - knowing the bhp of every country in the world's MTBs makes me *** in my pants!"

[Bereta_Eder]

And you're wrong. NATO will fight if it ever comes to a war of self defense, and make no mistake an attack on any NATO member really is an attack on them all.

We agree to disagree.

[NICE MOBIUS]

Frankly I cannot really see any scenario were NATO wouldn't come to the aid of another member. So I think you're flat out wrong on that one, paiktis.

[PLATO]

What I'm talking about is this incessant "but we've got 656,551 soldiers and you've only got 656,550, and our tanks are shinier too, so nyahnyahnyah!".

It's hilarious listening to a bunch of wannabe armchair generals reading off some stats from some pet website or other: "Look at me I know lots of boring crap about guns and tanks etc - knowing the bhp of every country in the world's MTBs makes me *** in my pants!" [emoji38]

When people actually start dying is when everyone should look to the realities of the situation so that cooler heads may prevail. Just because these are military facts is why you object. While it is unlikely that a Russian-Turkish war would erupt, it is reasonable for reasonsble people to discuss why these things should be avoided. Since the topic is conflict, it only makes sense to evaluate the strength of both sides to reach a reasonable conclusion. The fact that Russia and Turkey both are being very militarily aggressive right now makes it even more relevant. It does seem that Poly has reached a certain level of consensus in detertmining that war is unlikely. Something I am sure we all hope that the respective leaders will conclude as well.

I believe it is the nature of the facts that you object to due to your staunch anti war feelings and not the fact that people are using relevant facts to discuss an Important international issue.

[Bereta_Eder]

Frankly I cannot really see any scenario were NATO wouldn't come to the aid of another member. So I think you're flat out wrong on that one, paiktis.

I think it is an important step that we have finally gone through with the platitudes of NATO "promoting democracy" etc
Let's say it is an antiquated alliance whose purpose is kept alive like that king in england? that died? and went riding on a horse?
Who was that? nice tale.

About what will happen, I stand by my case.

[PLATO]

And you're wrong. NATO will fight if it ever comes to a war of self defense, and make no mistake an attack on any NATO member really is an attack on them all.

Every single government in NATO has made a point to publically confirm this within the last two years. It is pure lunacy to assume anything else at this point.

[Kidlicious]

Every single government in NATO has made a point to publically confirm this within the last two years. It is pure lunacy to assume anything else at this point.

When push comes to shove defending Turkey is not in our interests. Russia is more important to us than Turkey, and Turkey is a horrible ally

[NICE MOBIUS]

When people actually start dying is when everyone should look to the realities of the situation so that cooler heads may prevail. Just because these are military facts is why you object. While it is unlikely that a Russian-Turkish war would erupt, it is reasonable for reasonsble people to discuss why these things should be avoided. Since the topic is conflict, it only makes sense to evaluate the strength of both sides to reach a reasonable conclusion. The fact that Russia and Turkey both are being very militarily aggressive right now makes it even more relevant. It does seem that Poly has reached a certain level of consensus in detertmining that war is unlikely. Something I am sure we all hope that the respective leaders will conclude as well.

I believe it is the nature of the facts that you object to due to your staunch anti war feelings and not the fact that people are using relevant facts to discuss an Important international issue.

Anyone with half a brain and even a simple grasp of the situation would have instantly realised there was never any danger of any further escalation than sabre-rattling between Turkey and Russia, without having to get a hard on over relative tank numbers etc. It is an entirely unnecessary argument to be having.

Anyone who honestly thought that there would be a direct military conflict between Turkey and Russia is a certifiable idiot.

Anyone who doesn't want to avoid conflict at all costs, is a dangerous idiot.

[NICE MOBIUS]

I think it is an important step that we have finally gone through with the platitudes of NATO "promoting democracy" etc
Let's say it is an antiquated alliance whose purpose is kept alive like that king in england? that died? and went riding on a horse?
Who was that? nice tale.

About what will happen, I stand by my case.

Mutual protection is NATO's raison d'etre - end of ****ing story!

[Bereta_Eder]

Mutual protection is NATO's raison d'etre - end of ****ing story!

You didn't get the memo

[PLATO]

When push comes to shove defending Turkey is not in our interests. Russia is more important to us than Turkey, and Turkey is a horrible ally

I see you have no understanding of the geopolitical situation in the world.