what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Giancarlo]

*sigh* fez is the anti-ben.

Who is that?

[Dauphin]

Who is that?

He was some Argentinian dude who liked to push people out of helicopters.

[Giancarlo]

Oh Argentinian?

I didn't know any that posted here. I'm personally from Spain. But thanks for sharing bro! Nice story!

[Dinner]

Dinner, you just see openings to attack. You earlier said I don't work hard enough and that I am some low level employee lmao. I make about 30% more now than I would in a similar job in the private sector. I'm also unionized so I am quite happy where I am at. I also work hard and have been promoted plenty.

Some people may insult us... But without us, there would be no atmosphere for having business. Without the law, there wouldn't be any sort of order.

No, Giancarlo, I asked a very reasonable question given that you claimed working hard and doing a good job at work is almost never rewarded. I asked if you worked a dead end low paid job and when you said you did not I pointed out how your own experience countered your previous laughable claim.

Try responding to what people actually said rather than what you imagine they meant or what you wished they had said. If you are unclear about what they said try asking them to clarify instead of making up B. S. and trying to falsely claim that was what they said. You would probably get more respect using that route.

[Giancarlo]

No, Giancarlo, I asked a very reasonable question given that you claimed working hard and doing a good job at work is almost never rewarded. I asked if you worked a dead end low paid job and when you said you did not I pointed out how your own experience countered your previous laughable claim.

Try responding to what people actually said rather than what you imagine they meant or what you wished they had said. If you are unclear about what they said try asking them to clarify instead of making up B. S. and trying to falsely claim that was what they said. You would probably get more respect using that route.

My own experience? Well that would work if I was in the private sector. You failed. Once again. Oh and you didn't ask me. You said I must be... Different story and typical backtracking.

Maybe you should take your own advice in that second paragraph. You aren't consistent and you don't even follow your own words. Basically you are telling me how I should post, but you fail critically at doing what you have said.

Anyways break is over. I have no time to reply to someone who subscribes to the "do as I say, not as I do" philosophy.

[Ellestar]

If we take as an example the starvation in Ukraine and miracoulously tie it with stalinism, that indirectly led to the deaths of many.
US invasions, destabilizations etc led to an equivalent amount of deaths.

Even you fallen to that propaganda...

At the time when USSR tried to feed the population (the fact that population of cities was also starving proves that there was a general shortage of food in the country), capitalists of USA were intentionally destroying food, while their own population was also starving. But Western propaganda naturally spins it the other way.

[Ellestar]

On the other hand the 5 years plans that communist states had in the soviet states clearly was lacking any incentive to excel at work (why excelling at work if it doesn't enable you to climb a career ladder or get you better pay (and the only thing you get for superb performance is some plaque that says: "Worker of the month"))

Actually, there were incentives under Stalin. And then uneducated idiots in Soviet leadership destroyed it. But yeah, Capitalism does it in a much more brutal but efficient way, when government doesn't guarantee anything for it's people.

I cannot think of a single nonauthoritarian communist government in history.

While that's correct, there weren't that many communist governments to begin with. And most other governments in the world had opposing ideology, so that authoritarian ideology of "besieged fortress" was actually a sad truth.

So, what you said is true, but that doesn't mean that it's absolute nessessity.

I take it you are upset because you work a low level job? You may want to actually try exceeding job expectations and see if that earns you a promotion. It worked for me and I know I am not the only one.

Well, i wouldn't say it's always so. But my mother worked hard, and she rose from a secretary in a small firm (mostly owned by 3 original directors) to a deputy director and 2nd biggest co-owner. It's a small business (less than 100 people), and not that profitable, but i guess things like that happen sometimes.

[Giancarlo]

Thanks for bringing up that quote from dinner.

"I take it you are upset because you work a low level job?"

A rhetorical question is essentially a statement. Dinner. You never asked an open ended question with that. You basically made a stupid claim about my own background. My point is completely proven.

[Ellestar]

Nepotism is common though.

Slightly closer to original discussion, Nepotism was much bigger problem for a planned economy.

Nepotism is obviously bad because it decreases efficiency of, well, everything. In capitalist economy, too much bad things make company inefficient and said company goes out of business. So there is a direct negative feedback loop from Neoptism to lower efficiency to a loss of money to a decreased Neoptism because companies with a bigger average Neoptism are more likely to go out of business.

In planned economy, money are replaced with "administrative power". There are two problems with that. First, "administrative power" is "Neoptistic" by definition, instead of making decisions based on costs, efficiency, money or future profits, decisions are based on personal relations. If you know right people, you can get resources. You can't just buy said resources with money if you're more efficient and, say, the factory you run has more money than some other similiar factory in your country. Same with any important decisions (say, to upgrade and produce a new car in your factory instead of another one etc.).
So, you can't just take your money you made and do what you want if you're more efficient. At best, you must go to some important person in power and convice him that you're more efficient. At worst, someone decides it without your input at all.

Second problem is that there is no direct negative feedback loop. There is no way to measure everything in dollars, for example. Prices of goods are not real, resources aren't even distributed for money to begin with. So there is absolutely no more or less reliable way to measure efficiency of one thing to another.

So there is no natural negative feedback loop for anything in a planned economy. There are some negative feedback loops, but they're "planned", just like the rest of economy - that is, they use some limited arbitrary measurements, they must be supported by hand, and they're obviously prone to Neoptism. Economy may go into complete disarray, and someone really smart must fix, fix and fix it to make it working as intended. In the end, there wasn't enough smart people with enough power to outweigh the idiots and the system, and USSR economy inevitably collapsed as a whole, as one huge inefficient company.

They tried to fix some of these problems with Khozraschyot, but it was too little too late.

[Dinner]

Even you fallen to that propaganda...

At the time when USSR tried to feed the population (the fact that population of cities was also starving proves that there was a general shortage of food in the country), capitalists of USA were intentionally destroying food, while their own population was also starving. But Western propaganda naturally spins it the other way.

Americans were starving in the 1980's?!



America's biggest problem then and now is people eating to much.

[Giancarlo]

Americans were starving in the 1980's?!



America's biggest problem then and now is people eating to much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunger_in_the_United_States

With sharp cutbacks in the 1980s by the dirty corrupt Reagan many people did in fact suffer from starvation. Not to the degree of the Soviet Union, but it did happen.

Plus Reagan was a murdering sack of **** who basically left the gay community out to dry by not taking any direct and effective action on the HIV/AIDS epidemic. But that's a different topic. This is one of my other regrets though... praising that criminal. So many members of his cabinet ended up behind bars. He couldn't remember anything so he got away with it.

[pchang]

When even commies tell you that Nepotism is a self correcting problem under Capitalism, you should probably rethink your claims.

[Giancarlo]

When even commies tell you that Nepotism is a self correcting problem under Capitalism, you should probably rethink your claims.

It's not and still happens often.

[pchang]

Living on a houseboat in Egypt, eh?


BTW, you do realize there is a difference between hunger and starvation, right?

[Ellestar]

Americans were starving in the 1980's?!



America's biggest problem then and now is people eating to much.

In 1930s.