what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Bereta_Eder]

Poor kerry.

Jumping through putin's hoops. going from place to place, to moscow to wherever.

Even the tsar is starting to make fun of him.

It was hilarious to see

[Bereta_Eder]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comeuppance

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ass

[Dinner]

BTW Ondera this is where I got the million figure for the Turkish military:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Armed_Forces

You are right that the figure is for total Turkish Armed Forces and not just the Army, my mistake, but the number is still extremely close to a million (980,000).

[onodera]

This very page says "412,691 Military". This is still a large army, but they're not more militarized than Russia.

[Dinner]

Active personnel
Total 639,551, incl:[2](ranked 8th)

51,863 Civilian staff
170,295 Gendarmerie
4,702 Coast Guard
412,691 Military[nb 3]

Reserve personnel 378,700[3]

Hint: Add active personnel and reserve personal numbers together to get total personnel. (639,551 active plus 378,700 in reserve = about a million in service total.)

[onodera]

Yeah, if you want to inflate the numbers this way, then we have three million total.

[Dinner]

Inflate? That is the number of total service members. In any event Russia won't do anything because Turkey is in NATO. My point was their total military personnel is 1 million.

[PLATO]

According to Global Firepower Russia has 765,000 active and 2,485,000 in Reserve. Russia also has about 1100 top line tanks and about 1600 close to top line. Turkey has around 1600 total but is hard to determine how many are top line. A land war in Turkey would be a tough fight for Russia even without NATO but Turkey would lose...all other things being equal. The Russian air force would end up dominating Turkey after a brief initial tough fight. That being said, a war of that magnitude could easily cripple a victorious Russia. Hence this is why Putin is basically resorting to name calling. The reality is that if Russia attacked Turkey then they would stand no chance whatsoever conventionally because NATO would be involved.

[Bereta_Eder]

That would be the last straw that would break NATO's back.

Turkey is a quasi dictatorship and no sane person/country is going to risk itself for that.

It is also plagued by huge internal divisive problems and is looking more and more like those middle eastern countries that implode from within.

The minute a russan-turkish war begins, then NATO will do squat. Just like in ukraine.

Also Russia will not need lift a finger since for the megalomania of edogan turkey is puring huge money to keep its "military adventures". Kurds are rejoicing, both inside and outside.

Erdogan had a good run (he did wonders for turkish economy) but now he is devolved into a petty dictator and is taking turkey with him down.

[Bereta_Eder]

Also Russia had no air defense whatsoever (probably because putin didn't anticipate erdogan to be so stupid)
Now it has s-400 smack right in the middle of the turkish syrian border. It hasn't stopped pulverizing turkmen there and of course not one turkish plane is doing anything because it will be shot down.

Also poor turkey tried to block the dardanelles passing (many russian ships and subs go through there unhintered) by using a... fishing boat.

Russians casually opened fire.
It moved.
They passed.

[PLATO]

That would be the last straw that would break NATO's back.

False. To many geopolitical reasons that Turkey will be supported.

Turkey is a quasi dictatorship and no sane person/country is going to risk itself for that.

True/False. True that Turkey appears to be leaning toward dictatorial control, but this isn't the first time in its NATO history. NATO will support Turkey...particularly against a Russian attack.

It is also plagued by huge internal divisive problems and is looking more and more like those middle eastern countries that implode from within.

Irrelevant to the point

The minute a russan-turkish war begins, then NATO will do squat. Just like in ukraine.

False. You do know Ukraine isn't NATO, right?

Also Russia will not need lift a finger since for the megalomania of edogan turkey is puring huge money to keep its "military adventures". Kurds are rejoicing, both inside and outside.

Time will tell. Turkey seems quite able to maintain its level of spending on its military and it has shown the ability to hold things together with worse internal divisions than it has now.

Erdogan had a good run (he did wonders for turkish economy) but now he is devolved into a petty dictator and is taking turkey with him down.

True, but Turkey will survive as a country and as a NATO member.

[Bereta_Eder]

Cemalists had the ability to hold turkey together since they were a secular dictatorship into which the army always had the last say and kurdish oppression/ war on them was maximal.

Erdogan has managed to remove the cemalist influence in the army for the first time in turkey's history but the vacuum of the military junta is replaced by another form of authoritatism, of a more islamist/religious nature.

Turkey's internal problems, basically never looked so bad and never before was there a power change of that nature.

To top all that I think erdogan has managed to piss off virtually each and every one of its neighboors simultaneously.

As I said NATO will do squat because in the event of a turkish - russian war, there will simply be no NATO.

[Kidlicious]

Turkey doesn't even help us fight ISIS. They are our ally? I don't know if we would fight Russia for them.

[Dinner]

There will be no war because Putin knows even if some Greeks don't like the Turks all the other NATO members would honor article five. Even the Greeks.

Thus Putin's name calling, lies, and tantrums. He finally found someone he could not bully.

His sanctions actually hurt Russia worse than Turkey because with the western sanctions Turkey became a major supplier of things like food stuffs and now those are also off the Russian menu. Thus food prices in Russia will go even higher while Russians are already spending 50% of income just on food.

A westerner probably only spends 2%-3% of income on food. 5% if they are a gourmand.

[Dinner]

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