what happened to the großrossiya thread

[N35t0r]

what? Is Avengers anti-alien propaganda also? Or do you fail to grasp the terms 'Fiction' and 'Fantasy'?

[Ellestar]

An excellent article by the Economist of London. Russia is way more fragile than it looks, Mr. Putin insured that when he eschewed institution building in favor of personal dictatorship. The reality is the country has a million fault lines and ethnic groups which want independence.

USA is using an army against their ethnic groups, but it's Russia that has problems

Ironically, Putin blames everything on America but America is the last country which wants to see Russia break up because it doesn't want a lot of new unstable countries with nuclear weapons.

I'll just give you an advice. When you stage a march in Russia, don't name it "Марш гнева и достоинства". "Марш ГнИД" doesn't sound well in Russian (but perfectly describes the participants of that march and the fact that the name for it was invented abroad).

[Bereta_Eder]

300 was based on a comic book.

http://www.amazon.com/300-Frank-Miller/dp/1569714029

which in turn was rather loosely based on the actual story (which in turn was written by greeks, so... not an impartial source)

some iranians did get upset though
but it was fiction

[Ellestar]

what? Is Avengers anti-alien propaganda also? Or do you fail to grasp the terms 'Fiction' and 'Fantasy'?

I don't get what you want to say. All 3 examples of propaganda are fiction, not an exact story of what really happened.

[Ellestar]

https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/07/31/ahead-of-patriotic-film-release-russian-culture-minister-tells-archival-workers-to-pipe-down

In early July, the Russian State Archive published on its website a 1948 report written by the USSR Chief Military Prosecutor Nikolai Afanasyev, in which he states that the story of “Panfilov’s 28 Guardsmen” was actually a journalistic fabrication. The report says that several of the 28 men had survived, and one was later arrested on charges of high treason for joining a German police force.

I read an article to the end. Actually i would say it's an act of treason in my book. It's an important and a widely known propaganda story, used in a schoolbooks. Such disclosure doesn't do any good to anyone and it undermines the proper education about how Russian army should fight.

That's a perfect example why "liberals" face such a huge backlash in people's opinions about them in Russia. They just damn destroy everything good about Russia with their dirty hands. Why they think they can just badmouth the memory of everyone fighing in the defence of Moscow like that? I certaintly wouldn't mind if they'll be dismissed from their position for that.

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes but it's good to at least know the truth.
If that was the truth, then why hide it?
I don't know the story but that doesn't take away the valor of those who fought.
Doesn't take anything away from the great patriotic war IMO.

[Aeson]

[Ellestar]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]177526[/ATTACH]

I wonder how Ellestar and Serb will explain this?

Corruption. As the saying goes, "only mass executions will save the motherland", but in reality it's not that simple. Yes, it's bad, but people live much better than in 1990-1999. So changing Putin to liberals is just not an option, we already learned the lesson.

So, we don't like it, but let's see what happened with idiots who overthrown their governments according to Western advices. Ukraine. Lybia. Do i need to continue?

[Ellestar]

Yes but it's good to at least know the truth.
If that was the truth, then why hide it?

Ok, they badmouthed? (not sure what will be the right word for it) one specific person who was arrested on charges of high treason, and that's it. He's already dead anyway. That didn't do any good to anyone at all.

At the same time, they undermined an important propaganda that is important for the national security of Russia. Things like that happen in every war, and everyone remembers the example of their ancestors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Height_776

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_for_Hill_3234

So, as i see it, if a government empoyee knowingly reduces the national security of it's country for no reason (other than virtual "truth" that is absolutely useless and doesn't do anything, it doesn't even have any historical meaning), it's treason.

I don't know the story but that doesn't take away the valor of those who fought.
Doesn't take anything away from the great patriotic war IMO.

How it doesn't? This story is a representation of everyone who defended Moscow. If you say that, hey, it's fake, and that one guy was arrested for treason, it puts a shade on everyone.

[Bereta_Eder]

They'd have to substantiate that it is fake (just saying it doesn't prove it) but if it is fake then I don't agree that it takes away the honour of those who fought or of the russian people at large.
Finding the truth is liberating IMO but I agree that can't be found in school books very often.

For example the example of the Souliotes women. During the liberation struggle from the ottomans they were surrounded by turks.
They took their babies in their arms and they started dancing a circical dance and they jumped off a mountain cliff one by one rather than surrender to the turks.

A paramount example of defiance and fearlessness of death. (there's also the song in which they danced to their death "Fare well mountains and plains. A fish does not live at land and a flower does not blossom in sand and Souliotes women do not live without freedom")

If you search thought, they were not greeks but hellenized albanians (arvanites).
We all learn they were greek but they were not but that puts even more pride in the country IMO

[Bereta_Eder]

Rarely in one country everyone is a saint. It's good to know the truth, that doesn't take away the pride IMO.
It also renders one more realistic and more humble, IMO.
But I woulnd't expect this from school books, it's true.

[Proteus_MST]

...

So, we don't like it, but let's see what happened with idiots who overthrown their governments according to Western advices. Ukraine. Lybia. Do i need to continue?

Ukraine could be much better off than before the revolution ...
if Putin hadn´t decided to take the chance and stap in, in order to instigate a nice landgrab of Ukrainian territory (i.e. the Krim)
and afterwards had his secret service instigate an uprising in eastern Ukraina (and support it with russian military equipment and personnel, so that it wouldn´t get beaten down by the Ukrainian military).

Perhaps Ukraina would, without the corruption by the russia backed former government, even be able to pay for its gas bills now.
(i.e. if the russian landgrabs hadn´t happened)

[dannubis]

yeah perhaps.... but but but nazis !!!

[Dinner]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33865420

The smoking gun. International investigators find Russian missile parts at the site of the plane crash. Yes, folks, it is now 100% provable that the civilian plane was shot down by a Russian made missile. Of course, everyone already knew that as we had the intercepted Russian communications about them accidentally shooting down a civilian plane and we had multiple confessions from the "rebel" forces. Russia owes compensation to the families and the company for their criminal act.

[rah]

Jesus, do you even read the articles before you post them

They say the parts, possibly from a Buk surface-to-air system, are "of particular interest" and could help show who was behind the crash.
But they say they have not proved their "causal connection" with the crash.

Not quite what I would call 'THE SMOKING GUN"

They might be confirmed later but no where near definitive yet.