what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Ellestar]

Typical Russia, act like everyones hostile to you. Until about 5 years ago most of us were feeling like Russia was a new friend, or at least a decent country that could be treated just like everyone else. Now everyones back to assuming you're the rabid dog in the room. Well done, great work.

Yeah, here in Russia everyone thought exactly the same in Yeltsin years. Actually, i distinctly remember talks about joining NATO, on TV too. So a military alliance with the West was considered even in Kremlin to some extent. Hell knows why the West didn't spent some efforts to do it, it would have been ridiculously cheap and efficient - basically all nuclear arms in the world would have been in NATO (the only real threat to NATO, as noone has conventional arms to defeat it). And Russia would have been NATO front against, say, China, we border Middle East etc., so we would have become an efficient border state for EU NATO countries. I guess West just didn't take Russia seriously back then.

But then was that NATO war against Yugoslavia, then Georgia killed our peacekeepers in 2008 (an act of war), then that coup in Ukraine... And every time it's the NATO side that started it.

And as long as we become just a little bit stronger, everything came back to Cold War times or worse - coups on our borders, attacks on our allies, military provocations... Apparently, West doesn't need friends, West needs colonies and vassals.

[kentonio]

It's really not hard to understand, the number one thing the west want are stable, peaceful countries we can trade with so we can get richer. What huge benefit was served to the west exactly by the Yugoslavian war apart from the whole 'stopping a European genocide' part? What did we gain from Russia and Georgia scuffling?

This is what annoys me about you guys, its not usually hard to see who is causing trouble internationally, just look for who benefits. If you need a complex conspiracy to explain something, it usually (though admittedly not always) means you're missing something simple. The one benefiting from most of whats happening around Russia lately is Putin, it's not the west (who suddenly have to start ploughing billions into defense again) it's not Russia's neighbours (who now have to worry about ending up as battlefields), hell its not even the Russian people (who might have gained Crimea, but have lots vast trading opportunities and personal freedoms in recent years). You're being led into dark places by a man who makes Russians feel strong again. That sound familiar historically at all?

[PLATO]

Russian paranoia knows no bounds. If only there were half as paranoid about the idiots they let take power in their country.

[Dinner]

The main reason Russia didn't join NATO was Putin said he would never do it and that he wanted Russia to have its own opposing alliance claiming that is what great powers do. This was back when he first got in office (so like 2000). Then Putin started undermining democracy and the rule of law in Russia setting himself up as dictator and buying the loyalty of cronies by allowing them to steal trillions from the people of Russia.

[Dinner]

We should rename you liarstar.

"Every time it is the NATO side who started it."

You simply must be a paid troll because no one could be this stupid. Yugoslavia went on for years before NATO got involved with Serbia running a genocidal ethnic cleansing campaign in at least three different countries before NATO said enough and put a stop to it. In Georgia Russian backed seporatists tried to expand their territory by attacking government forces and the government forces then counter attacked, breaking the seporatists, and the rebellion would have been over if Russia hadn't invaded and reestablished the seporatists areas (areas Russia has since annexed). While in the Ukraine even your lying diseased mind Russia was trying to take advantage of the Ukraine's financial position to turn the country back into a colony, the people rose up against that and against the corruption of the government, Russia then invaded.

Seriously, Putin has been in the wrong on everything and even China agrees. Just about the entire world agrees. Have you ever heard the phrase "If you run into an a$$hole in the morning then he is the a$$hole. If you run into a$$holes all day then you are the a$$hole?" Russia is claiming they run into a$$holes all day every day. Think about that.

[Ellestar]

While in the Ukraine even your lying diseased mind Russia was trying to take advantage of the Ukraine's financial position to turn the country back into a colony, the people rose up against that and against the corruption of the government, Russia then invaded.

Our "colony" Ukraine actually had industry (built by evil imperialistic Muscovites, of course) that supplied us with high-tech like rocket engines and helicopter/ship turbines etc.

It's your colony Ukraine became agrarian country, as every colony should. Again, "you will know them by their fruit" (c). Facts tell us who made Ukraine into a colony. We actually warned them beforehand that exactly that will happen if they will sign Association Agreement with EU without money from EU so to retool their industry to EU standarts required by said Association Agreement.

Seriously, Putin has been in the wrong on everything and even China agrees. Just about the entire world agrees. Have you ever heard the phrase "If you run into an a$$hole in the morning then he is the a$$hole. If you run into a$$holes all day then you are the a$$hole?" Russia is claiming they run into a$$holes all day every day. Think about that.

Oh come on, don't be such a tool! China and others don't agree with your coups and your bombings or invasions either. And you do a lot of them, unlike us. So please... West is not entire world, West is USA puppet, of course they have only one opinion - one of their masters.

[Proteus_MST]

Our "colony" Ukraine actually had industry (built by evil imperialistic Muscovites, of course) that supplied us with high-tech like rocket engines and helicopter/ship turbines etc.

...

Which obviously seems to be the reasons for Putins Ukraine-Strategy ...
seizing the Krim Peninsula to secure its fleet base (despite the fact that the treaties would have granted the military harbors to russia for decades to come)
and instigation pro russians uprisings in the ukrainian east (and supplying them with weapons and specialists) in order to secure the mining facilities and weapons industries there for russia (and, had you succeeded there on the scale you had wished, also granting you a land connection between russia and the Krim)

[PLATO]

Liarstar. How appropriate! Oerdin

[regexcellent]

I ran into an article recently that's a little bone-chilling, if true, which alleges the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings were orchestrated by the KGB to justify a new invasion of Chechnya and get Putin elected.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/nov/22/finally-we-know-about-moscow-bombings/

There's a considerable amount of evidence.

[N35t0r]

So, kind of like Iraqi WMDs?

[onodera]

I ran into an article recently that's a little bone-chilling, if true, which alleges the 1999 Moscow apartment bombings were orchestrated by the KGB to justify a new invasion of Chechnya and get Putin elected.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2012/nov/22/finally-we-know-about-moscow-bombings/

There's a considerable amount of evidence.

I didn't know Estonianness was contagious.

[regexcellent]

I was pretty young then, were the bombings a bigger deal at that time or the invasion of Dagestan by Chechnyans?

[onodera]

I was pretty young then, were the bombings a bigger deal at that time or the invasion of Dagestan by Chechnyans?

Both were big. Dagestan was a longer campaign, so it incorporated revenged for the bombings over its course.

[Serb]

Holy sh!t. The Western brainless TV-zombies never change - pathetic intellectual plankton.

Сарас, мои поздравления. Если ты, не дай Бог, когда-нибудь увидишь русского солдата в боевой ситуации, то я даю тебе не более двух минут чтобы ты как следует обосрался. Высшая расса, блять. Долбоебы конченные. Вы все просто пачка ебнутых на всю голову идиотов, живущих в параллельной реальности. Блять, в натуре - планктон. Ебаный фашисткий планктон.

[Serb]

Сука, точно дождетесь, бляди. Пидорасы безмозглые, сколько вам блять веков и попыток надо, чтобы понять, что с русскими связываться нельзя?
Долбоебы.