what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Dinner]

Indeed.

[Bereta_Eder]

EU is slipping.
Its model has devastated the baltics and the only, the only reason it was swallowed with such ease was because of fear of russia.
Its model also curtails democracy human rights and the social state upon which it is based.

EU is slipping bad, surrendered to a catastrophic inhuman, dictatorial program of free markets and german based austerity that condemns people to situations that are not acceptable to them (just as unrestrained free markets are not).


Putin is a useful counterweight to this barbarism and will continue to be viewed as such as long such ideological taliban punitive theories remain in place and condemn tens of millions in poverty.

[Saras]

EU is slipping.
Its model has devastated the baltics and the only, the only reason it was swallowed with such ease was because of fear of russia.

Devastated? Dude, we're THIS close to being richer than Greece. Our crisis lasted very briefly, and we've been the fastest growing region in EU for quite some time. You are talking out of your arse. Italy and Greece should PRAY for such a "devastation".

Its model also curtails democracy human rights and the social state upon which it is based.

It's main criticism from the homophobic right (and Russian fascist centre) is precisely the opposite, though Gayropa, they say, is out to take their kids and turn them into LGBTBOTS

EU is slipping bad, surrendered to a catastrophic inhuman, dictatorial program of free markets and german based austerity that condemns people to situations that are not acceptable to them (just as unrestrained free markets are not).

Do not call what you had in Greece a "free market". You had a cronyist corrupt government wasting money obtained through fraudulent means (doctored statistics, hiding derivatives etc.) from capital markets. Hangover is a *****.

Putin is a useful counterweight to this barbarism and will continue to be viewed as such as long such ideological taliban punitive theories remain in place and condemn tens of millions in poverty.

Putin IS barbarism, and is against everything Europe is and ought to be.

[Bereta_Eder]

Devastated? Dude, we're THIS close to being richer than Greece. Our crisis lasted very briefly, and we've been the fastest growing region in EU for quite some time. You are talking out of your arse. Italy and Greece should PRAY for such a "devastation".

Lithuania's minimum wage is half than that of Greece now. How are people doing?
Who cares if your wealth is amassed in the hands of a few.

How are Latvia's public institutions doing?

How is Estonia's huge army of drug addicts a direct result of austerity?

I'll pass to this kind of "miracle".

I don't have an aggresive megamoth next to me to stay cowerded in a corner and accept poison. And even if I had, the cause is just and the people fighting their for their rights are my allies.

It's main criticism from the homophobic right (and Russian fascist centre) is precisely the opposite, though Gayropa, they say, is out to take their kids and turn them into LGBTBOTS

I hope this will cease but it doesn't affect me.

Do not call what you had in Greece a "free market". You had a cronyist corrupt government wasting money obtained through fraudulent means (doctored statistics, hiding derivatives etc.) from capital markets. Hangover is a *****.

Yes it did. However the poison was never meant to correct these issues.
The vast majority of that is used as ascapegoat for a fundamentally erroneous program, one that people with a democractic conscience and traditions, gained through fights, simply do not accept.

Putin IS barbarism, and is against everything Europe is and ought to be.

Such manichaistic dichotomies are not only laughable but also detached from reality

[Saras]

Lithuania's minimum wage is half than that of Greece now. How are people doing?
Who cares if your wealth is amassed in the hands of a few.

Well, it would appear your minimum wage is too damn high, it stifles employment and keeps people away from work, turning them into long term unemployed.

How are Latvia's public institutions doing?

What do you mean?

How is Estonia's huge army of drug addicts a direct result of austerity?

Thanks for so eloquently establising causality.

don't have an aggresive megamoth next to me to stay cowerded in a corner and accept poison. And even if I had, the cause is just and the people fighting their for their rights are my allies.

It's curious why you think there is a link. Russia did not become aggressive well into our fantastic austerity (of which there was not so much as you imagine)-led recovery.

Such manichaistic dichotomies are not only laughable but also detached from reality

I don't have time to write treatises on Russian culture and geopolitics. OF COURSE there are shades of gray. Doh. But the statement stands. Putin's russia is 0.9879 barbarity, and Europe is 0.0015 barbarity. Happy now?

[Bereta_Eder]

Well, it would appear your minimum wage is too damn high, it stifles employment and keeps people away from work, turning them into long term unemployed.

One can still be payed the minimum wage.
The company will not close because of this. It was close (they are closed) because they are overtaxed.
Cut the taxes, raise the minimum wage, and then go on from there.

What do you mean?

I mean that they are destroyed.

Thanks for so eloquently establising causality.

You're welcome. It doesn't take a geniuous to know that a collapse of the social fabric as direct result of neoliberal ideological fixations leads people to drugs. Hell it does a lot of other things too.

It's curious why you think there is a link. Russia did not become aggressive well into our fantastic austerity (of which there was not so much as you imagine)-led recovery.

Russia got aggressive, in part, because it saw a 1990's plan being materialized.
You are pawns in this geopolitical game.
I hope and pray, that the people, in their limited capacity to influence things will do so in the correct way. That goes for all sides.

I don't have time to write treatises on Russian culture and geopolitics. OF COURSE there are shades of gray. Doh. But the statement stands. Putin's russia is 0.9879 barbarity, and Europe is 0.0015 barbarity. Happy now?

Barbarity is measured by everyday reality. Free markets and austerity give birth to this kind of barbarity.
Europe is not some kind of torch that exists in an ideal plane and that burns by itself. It's its people.

Or rather a woman stolen by zeus on a bull from libya. It can easily return her there if logic and its fundamental building blocks and fibres don't prevail.

[Saras]

One can still be payed the minimum wage.
The company will not close because of this.

actually at the margin (where economics happens) they will.

It was close (they are closed) because they are overtaxed.

I suspect disappearing demand also had a role.

Cut the taxes, raise the minimum wage, and then go on from there.

you only got half that statement right

I mean that they are destroyed.

Which ones?

You're welcome. It doesn't take a geniuous to know that a collapse of the social fabric as direct result of neoliberal ideological fixations leads people to drugs.

Yet somehow there is no drug epidemic in a similarly "devastated" Lithuania. Your model has a flaw.

Russia got aggressive, in part, because it saw a 1990's plan being materialized.

That's a narrative they try and spin. I don't believe it has a lot of truth in it - Russia is aggressive, starting from 2008 Georgia war, because of internal Russian politics and the need to keep the ruling ex-KGB kleptocracy in power. The "betrayal of NATO" is a myth they use to justify their "reaction". Until Russia went full ****** last year, NATO forces encroaching on Mother Russias borders amounted to TWO fighter jets in Å iauliai. TWO FIGHTER JETS, CARL!!!

You are pawns in this geopolitical game.

And willing collaborators, and hurray for that. No way we're going back into whatever "union" these guys have in mind.

I hope and pray, that the people, in their limited capacity to influence things will do so in the correct way. That goes for all sides.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHylQRVN2Qs

Barbarity is measured by everyday reality. Free markets <...>give birth to this kind of barbarity.

You are a poor student of actual history. Free markets and bourgeois virtues have had an explosive and contagious civilising, enriching and liberating effect on generations since 1800 or thereabouts. It is the reaction to the expansion of free markets and bourgeois values that have cause all of the major calamities of the last 200 years.

Europe is not some kind of torch that exists in an ideal plane and that burns by itself. It's its people.

Yes, and there are many people who disagree with your view of what "Europe" is.

Or rather a woman stolen by zeus on a bull from libya. It can easily return her there if logic and its fundamental building blocks and fibres don't prevail.

yea yea, the GREEKS INVENTED KARATE

[Bereta_Eder]

Karate is a greek word because it comes from... err screw it

No, actually a policy of austerity and of punitive action as displayed here now led to the 2nd world war and can lead to the third too.

Again, european values are based on things modern EU simply doesn't care about. Its this blindness and arrogance that has inevitably led it to its downfall.

Yes Lithuania doesn't have a drug problem, (it seems).

Be careful though lest your fear for becoming again part of the USSR leads you to become part of another union whose ideals only rest on a tattered piece of paper.

[Saras]

Be careful though lest your fear for becoming again part of the USSR leads you to become part of another union whose ideals only rest on a tattered piece of paper.

Rule of law, liberty, equality are not pieces of paper. There is much less agreement if "Europe" should also include a heavily redistributive state.

[Bereta_Eder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv8LEG3l2vI

x-post - musical intermission

[Bereta_Eder]

Rule of law, liberty, equality are not pieces of paper. There is much less agreement if "Europe" should also include a heavily redistributive state.

Rule of law should be constantly scrutinized to see who it primarily serves.
Liberty is curtailed by european standards, massively.
Equality is a fleeting dream and is being systematically demolished.

There is no way one can have its pie for himself and his dog fed. There is no EU without redistribution.

[Saras]

Rule of law should be constantly scrutinized to see who it primarily serves.

Interesting concept.

Liberty is curtailed by european standards, massively.

How so?

Equality is a fleeting dream and is being systematically demolished.

Women vote, gays marry, there is a growing political reaction in the form of Le Pen-style cryptofascists saying there is TOO MUCH liberty (also conicidentally financed by... Putin's Russia. Badum-tss).

There is no EU without redistribution.

I didn't say "no redistribution". I said no "massive redistribution". If there is no EU without massive redistribution, then eventually there is no EU. At least I hope we're not a part of it.

[Bereta_Eder]

Interesting concept.

Isn't it?

How so?

A very amusing example is the UK gov accusing iceland of terrorism, simply because it didn't pay its debts.

On a national level this is translated by workers rights being taken away from them under paper thin pretexes.

Women vote, gays marry, there is a growing political reaction in the form of Le Pen-style cryptofascists saying there is TOO MUCH liberty (also conicidentally financed by... Putin's Russia. Badum-tss).

These are self evident because people have fought for them long ago (although it always pays to be alert).

I'm not using equality in a human rights basis but in a financial.

I didn't say "no redistribution". I said no "massive redistribution". If there is no EU without massive redistribution, then eventually there is no EU. At least I hope we're not a part of it.

If the EU goes on the way it is now, pretty soon noone is going to be a part of it.

[Saras]

On a national level this is translated by workers rights being taken away from them under paper thin pretexes.

Surely you mean undue privileges, not rights?

I'm not using equality in a human rights basis but in a financial.

If your policy aim is equality of financial outcomes, we don't belong in the same economic union.

If the EU goes on the way it is now, pretty soon noone is going to be a part of it.

Blah, we'll reestablish Hanse 2.0 with Balts, Brits, Scandis and maybe Poles. Germans can have their Euro

[Bereta_Eder]

Surely you mean undue privileges, not rights?

It's all in the eye of the beholder but there are objective measurements by which a right is a right and an undue privilege is just that. And to what exactly the abolition of each, leads to.

If your policy aim is equality of financial outcomes, we don't belong in the same economic union.

That's true, we don't. I measure the robust level of a democracy also by how widespread wealth divergence is, or not.

Blah, we'll reestablish Hanse 2.0 with Balts, Brits, Scandis and maybe Poles. Germans can have their Euro

Well, good luck.
We'll probably just start showing our reknown balkan love for one another again