what happened to the großrossiya thread

[Dinner]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/01/politics/russia-plane-navy-uss-ross/index.html

Putin is such a pathetic diminutive little dictator with his constant lies. I get it, he has to get people like Serb and Ellestar to think he is a big man but it is just pathetic how often he lies and how easily it is disproved. It is like how they amerturishly photoshopped images to hide the fact that they shot down a civilian airliner over the Ukraine, it fooled no one with half a brain, and helped to convince everyone else Putin is a liar who can't be trusted. Now he is telling tall tales about how he supposedly coward ed the U.S. Navy only actual footage probes the opposite. The ship never changed course, it had positive lock on the antique Russian plane, the Russian plane didn't have any weapons on it because the U.S. told Putin of the tiny penis it might just shoot down Russian planes which got to close if they were armed. Of course, tiny penis dictator, goes on his propaganda outlet and claims a great victory claiming he has driven the foreign imperialists away even though they were in international waters, never changed course during the whole incident, and could have brought down the Russian plane any time they pleased.

I am reminded of the pathetic inferiority complex the Soviets had making up stupid **** like a Soviet invented the light bulb even though it predated the US ST by 40+ year or that a Soviet "invented" the potato despite being brought to Europe (by the Spanish) 450 years before there was the US ST existed. I mean how tiny must your penis be to invent such obvious lies?

[Dinner]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/01/politics/russia-plane-navy-uss-ross/index.html

Putin has mastered propoganda but the photoshopp skills of his cronies leave much to be desired. Both the Dutch and EU co-authored a report released yesterday which conclusively prove not only that the Russian military shot down the civilian airliner over the Ukraine but they desperately tried to hide that fact by, very badly, photoshopping images. I think your average scipt kiddy could have done better.

[The Mad Monk]

The second link is still the Ross fly-by.

[Dinner]

The cnn link?

[pchang]

yes. They are both the same link.

[Ellestar]

You really think "fashion propaganda" is serious?

But of course.
What's your most reputable news sources? These ones are somewhere in the top, i guess?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/north-korean-defence-minister-executed-by-anti-aircaft-gun-report

http://time.com/3856718/north-korea-execution-defense-minister-hyon-yong-chol/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/13/asia/north-korea-executes-defense-chief/

And they say that North Korean minister was killed with an anti-aircraft gun (the "proof" was actually a part of a video from Middle East that was uploaded to Youtube more than a year ago).

So, as long as a story goes about North Korea or Russia or Mordor or other countries ruled by evil dictators, liches (yeah, we have one called Lenin in Kremlin, together with a personal mauzoleum, i wonder why your propaganda didn't say it yet) and other Forces of Evil, i think i can believe that absolutely everything can possibly be told about us by the West.

[Saras]

But of course.
What's your most reputable news sources? These ones are somewhere in the top, i guess?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/north-korean-defence-minister-executed-by-anti-aircaft-gun-report

http://time.com/3856718/north-korea-execution-defense-minister-hyon-yong-chol/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/13/asia/north-korea-executes-defense-chief/

And they say that North Korean minister was killed with an anti-aircraft gun (the "proof" was actually a part of a video from Middle East that was uploaded to Youtube more than a year ago).

So, as long as a story goes about North Korea or Russia or Mordor or other countries ruled by evil dictators, liches (yeah, we have one called Lenin in Kremlin, together with a personal mauzoleum, i wonder why your propaganda didn't say it yet) and other Forces of Evil, i think i can believe that absolutely everything can possibly be told about us by the West.

If the cross section of Russian society we have here on poly - onodera, Serb and you - is any representation of the wider picture, stories of Russia being more or less Mordor are mostly true well, at least 2/3 true

[Ellestar]

Putin has mastered propoganda but the photoshopp skills of his cronies leave much to be desired. Both the Dutch and EU co-authored a report released yesterday which conclusively prove not only that the Russian military shot down the civilian airliner over the Ukraine but they desperately tried to hide that fact by, very badly, photoshopping images. I think your average scipt kiddy could have done better.

Yeah, and Google is a free independent source in a neutral 3rd-party country that can't be doctored in a year that was passed since the shot down. Seriously, you compare Russian source just after an event, and Western source a year after an event, and claim that Russian one is a fake.

[Aeson]

But of course.
What's your most reputable news sources? These ones are somewhere in the top, i guess?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/13/north-korean-defence-minister-executed-by-anti-aircaft-gun-report

http://time.com/3856718/north-korea-execution-defense-minister-hyon-yong-chol/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/13/asia/north-korea-executes-defense-chief/

And they say that North Korean minister was killed with an anti-aircraft gun (the "proof" was actually a part of a video from Middle East that was uploaded to Youtube more than a year ago).

So, as long as a story goes about North Korea or Russia or Mordor or other countries ruled by evil dictators, liches (yeah, we have one called Lenin in Kremlin, together with a personal mauzoleum, i wonder why your propaganda didn't say it yet) and other Forces of Evil, i think i can believe that absolutely everything can possibly be told about us by the West.

My news sources are Apolyton (mainly to argue with other westerners) and The Daily Show (humor, mainly making fun of stupid things US politicians or media does). The rest I don't really care for.

Your response about "fashion propaganda" is rather weird. Not sure whether you really are afraid of US owned RU websites spreading US "fashion propaganda" in Russia, or if you just misread what I was saying.

[Ellestar]

I am reminded of the pathetic inferiority complex the Soviets had making up stupid **** like a Soviet invented the light bulb even though it predated the US ST by 40+ year or that a Soviet "invented" the potato despite being brought to Europe (by the Spanish) 450 years before there was the US ST existed. I mean how tiny must your penis be to invent such obvious lies?

Actually, it was in Great Britain in 1809 and in USA in 1878. And that western source doesn't mention russian scientist Alexander Lodygin who actually invented a modern tungsten light bulb.

https://books.google.ru/books?id=Py64LbBcSwAC&pg=PA31&hl=ru#v=onepage&q&f=false

And how can anyone invent potato, anyway? What kind of bull**** do you believe?

[Sava]

I wipe my ass with the Russian flag

[PLATO]

I wipe my ass with the Russian flag

Don't upgrade its usefulness.

[Ellestar]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/02/russian-missile-firm-offers-recreate-mh17-crash

Zaroshchenskoe was very close to the front line at the time MH17 was downed, but is believed to have been under rebel control.

Really? Believed by whom?
ria.ru/defense_safety/20140721/1016923415.html
General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation "believed" in 21 July 2014 that it was controlled by Ukraine and said that they found their "Buk" SAMs there.

But now, after a year, Zaroshchenskoe mysteriously and retroactively changes hands.

[PLATO]

Fierce fighting is raging between Ukrainian government forces and pro-Russian rebels in eastern Ukraine, officials on both sides say.

The clashes - said to involve heavy artillery and tanks - are taking place in Maryinka and Krasnohorivka, outside the rebel-held city of Donetsk.

There were reports of multiple injuries in the towns held by Ukraine's army.

Clashes between government troops and the rebels have recently intensified despite a ceasefire signed in February.

The Ukrainian government, Western leaders and Nato all say there is clear evidence that Russia is helping the rebels in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions with heavy weapons and soldiers. Independent experts echo that accusation.




Moscow denies it, insisting that any Russians serving with the rebels are volunteers.

More than 6,400 people have been killed in fighting in eastern Ukraine that began in April 2014 when rebels seized large parts of the two eastern regions. This followed Russia's annexation of the Crimea peninsula.

In other developments:
◾two civilians were killed by mortar fire in the Ukraine-held part of the Luhansk region, Governor Hennadiy Moskal says
◾Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov says Russia disagrees with the term "annexation" of Crimea used in a recent speech by German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Russia's Itar-Tass news agency reports; Moscow insists that Crimea was "reunited" with Russia
◾the latest round of talks on Ukraine's peace plan ended without an agreement in Minsk, Belarus, on Tuesday

'Praying for boys'

Ukrainian officials say the clashes in Maryinka and Krasnohorivka, just west of Donetsk, began with heavy artillery shelling by the rebels early in the morning.

"Krasnohorivka and Maryinka are in flames. There is a close-contact fighting taking place along the entire line of contact. Militants are trying to break through," wrote Ukrainian lawmaker Yevhen Deydey, who acts as a liaison official for the government's Kiev-1 battalion.

Ukraine map
"Praying for our boys," Mr Deydey added on his blog.

More than 20 government soldiers were wounded during the intense fighting, unconfirmed reports say.

Rebel sources also reported on a number of injuries among their forces.

Maryinka - a strategically-located town along a major road - has been devastated by months of heavy fighting.

The rebels have accused Ukrainian troops stationed in the town of repeatedly shelling Donetsk - a claim denied by the Ukrainian military.

Despite the ceasefire, rebel leaders have said they want to seize the parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions currently held by government forces.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32988499

[Bereta_Eder]

Uno


The Eurasian Chessboard: Brzezinski Mapped Out “The Battle for Ukraine” in 1997



It’s all about maintaining the US position as the world’s sole superpower

Why would the United States run the risk of siding with anti-Semitic, neo-Nazis in Ukraine?

One of the keys may be found by looking back at Zbigniew Brzezinski’s 1997 book, The Grand Chessboard in which he wrote, “Ukraine, a new and important space on the Eurasian chessboard, is a geopolitical pivot because its very existence as an independent country helps to transform Russia. Without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be a Eurasian empire.”

“However, if Moscow regains control over Ukraine, with its 52 million people and major resources as well as access to the Black Sea, Russia automatically again regains the wherewithal to become a powerful imperial state, spanning Europe and Asia.”

The former national security advisor to Jimmy Carter from 1977 to 1981 and top foreign policy advisor to Barack Obama, Brzezinski wrote that US policy should be “unapologetic” in perpetuating “America’s own dominant position for at least a generation and preferably longer still.”

Brzezinski delved into the importance of little known Ukraine by explaining in his 1997 book, “Geopolitical pivots are the states whose importance is derived not from their power and motivation but rather from their sensitive location… which in some cases gives them a special role in either defining access to important areas or in denying resources to a significant player.”

“Ukraine, Azerbaijan, South Korea, Turkey and Iran play the role of critically important geopolitical pivots,” he wrote in The Grand Chessboard, a book viewed by many as a blueprint for US world domination.

Brzezinski wrote that Eurasia is “the chessboard on which the struggle for global primacy continues to be played,” and that “it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.”

Understanding Brzezinski’s long-term view of Ukraine makes it easier to comprehend why the US has given $5 billion to Ukraine since 1991, and why today it is hyper-concerned about having Ukraine remain in its sphere of influence.

It may also help explain why in the past year the US and many of its media outlets have feverishly demonized Vladimir Putin.

By prominently highlighting the mistreatment of activist group ***** Riot, incessantly condemning Russia’s regressive position on gay rights, and excessively focusing on substandard accommodations at the Sochi Olympic Games, the Obama administration has cleverly distracted the public from delving into US support of the ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazi factions of the Ukrainian opposition, and has made it palatable for Americans to accept the US narrative on Ukraine.

Interestingly enough, it was Brzezinski who first compared Putin to Hitler in a March 3 Washington Post Editorial. Hillary Clinton followed-up the next day with her comments comparing the two, followed by John McCain and Marco Rubio who on March 5 agreed with Clinton’s comments comparing Putin and Hitler. Apparently Brzezinski still continues to influence US political speak.

In his book, Brzezinski contends that “America stands supreme in the four decisive domains of global power: militarily… economically… technologically… and culturally.”

While this may have been accurate in 1997, it can be argued that today, other than militarily, the US no longer reigns supreme in these domains.

So late last year when Ukraine’s now-ousted president Viktor Yanukovych surprisingly canceled plans for Ukrainian integration into the European Union in favor of stronger ties with Russia, the US may have viewed Ukraine as slipping even further out of its reach.

At that point, with the pieces already in place, the US moved to support the ousting of Yanukovych, as evidenced by the leaked phone conversation between US Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland and US Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt. When peaceful protests were not effective in unseating Yanukovych, the violence of the ultra-nationalist Svoboda party and Right Sector was embraced, if not supported by the west.

In today’s Ukraine, the US runs the risk of being affiliated with anti-Semitic neo-Nazis, a prospect it probably feels can be controlled via a friendly western media. But even if the risk is high, the US likely views it as necessary given the geopolitical importance of Ukraine, as Brzezinski mapped out in 1997.

Chris Ernesto is co-founder of St. Pete for Peace, an antiwar organization in St. Petersburg, FL that has been active since 2003. Mr. Ernesto also created and manages OccupyArrests.com and USinAfrica.com.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-eurasian-chessboard-brzezinski-mapped-out-the-battle-for-ukraine-in-1997/5373707

Due


U.S and NATO Responsible for Ukraine Crisis … and West Has Agreed to Cover Up Details About Shoot Down of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17

Stephen Cohen is one of America’s top experts on Russia. Cohen is professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton University, and the author of a number of books on Russia and the Soviet Union.

Cohen says that the West is mainly to blame for the crisis in Ukraine:

This is a horrific, tragic, completely unnecessary war in eastern Ukraine. In my own judgment, we have contributed mightily to this tragedy. I would say that historians one day will look back and say that America has blood on its hands. Three thousand people have died, most of them civilians who couldn’t move quickly. That’s women with small children, older women. A million refugees.

Cohen joins other American experts on Russia – such as former U.S. ambassador to the Soviet Union, Jack Matlock – in this assessment.

Cohen also says that if Ukraine joins NATO, it will lead to nuclear war:

[Interviewer:] The possibility of Ukraine in NATO and what that means and what—

STEPHEN COHEN: Nuclear war.

[Interviewer:] Explain.

STEPHEN COHEN: Next question. I mean, it’s clear. It’s clear. First of all, by NATO’s own rules, Ukraine cannot join NATO, a country that does not control its own territory. In this case, Kiev controls less and less by the day. It’s lost Crimea. It’s losing the Donbas—I just described why—to the war. A country that does not control its own territory cannot join Ukraine [sic]. Those are the rules.

[Interviewer:] Cannot join—

STEPHEN COHEN: I mean, NATO. Secondly, you have to meet certain economic, political and military criteria to join NATO. Ukraine meets none of them. Thirdly, and most importantly, Ukraine is linked to Russia not only in terms of being Russia’s essential security zone, but it’s linked conjugally, so to speak, intermarriage. There are millions, if not tens of millions, of Russian and Ukrainians married together. Put it in NATO, and you’re going to put a barricade through millions of families. Russia will react militarily.

In fact, Russia is already reacting militarily, because look what they’re doing in Wales today. They’re going to create a so-called rapid deployment force of 4,000 fighters. What is 4,000 fighters? Fifteen thousand or less rebels in Ukraine are crushing a 50,000-member Ukrainian army. Four thousand against a million-man Russian army, it’s nonsense. The real reason for creating the so-called rapid deployment force is they say it needs infrastructure. And the infrastructure—that is, in plain language is military bases—need to be on Russia’s borders. And they’ve said where they’re going to put them: in the Baltic republic, Poland and Romania.

Now, why is this important? Because NATO has expanded for 20 years, but it’s been primarily a political expansion, bringing these countries of eastern Europe into our sphere of political influence; now it’s becoming a military expansion. So, within a short period of time, we will have a new—well, we have a new Cold War, but here’s the difference. The last Cold War, the military confrontation was in Berlin, far from Russia. Now it will be, if they go ahead with this NATO decision, right plunk on Russia’s borders. Russia will then leave the historic nuclear agreement that Reagan and Gorbachev signed in 1987 to abolish short-range nuclear missiles. It was the first time nuclear—a category of nuclear weapons had ever been abolished. Where are, by the way, the nuclear abolitionists today? Where is the grassroots movement, you know, FREEZE, SANE? Where have these people gone to? Because we’re looking at a new nuclear arms race. Russia moves these intermediate missiles now to protect its own borders, as the West comes toward Russia. And the tripwire for using these weapons is enormous.

One other thing. Russia has about, I think, 10,000 tactical nuclear weapons, sometimes called battlefield nuclear weapons. You use these for short distances. They can be fired; you don’t need an airplane or a missile to fly them. They can be fired from artillery. But they’re nuclear. They’re radioactive. They’ve never been used. Russia has about 10,000. We have about 500. Russia’s military doctrine clearly says that if Russia is threatened by overwhelming conventional forces, we will use tactical nuclear weapons. So when Obama boasts, as he has on two occasions, that our conventional weapons are vastly superior to Russia, he’s feeding into this argument by the Russian hawks that we have to get our tactical nuclear weapons ready.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/09/top-russia-expert-ukraine-joins-nato-will-cause-nuclear-war.html

went to a book sale and the dirt cheap books were by Brzezinski who actually wrote about US plans for ukraine back in the '90s (didn't buy them)