The Great Scottish FREEEEEEEEEDOOOMMMMM!!!!1!!! vote

[AAAAAAAAH!]

The truth is that Scotland is too small and irrelevant already to be a factor in London's monetary policy. It wouldn't change much if they seceded and kept the pound until they created their own currency.

Should Ireland leave the Euro and make its own currency? I don't see how having your own currency is advantageous when you're so small.

My position is that freedom of people is as important as individual freedoms. And that independence movements are walking point in the fight against financial oligarchies.

Small countries aren't going to be able to stand up to financial oligarchies. They're more vulnerable to things like capital flight than a larger country.

[Ben Kenobi]

Scotland, do you really want to share the same fate as Quebec? A once influential province in a respected nation bitter over a war lost to the British?

[C0ckney]

Will the UK become more Federal now?

possibly. the government and all main parties have promised some quite wide ranging new powers for scotland and more devolution for the rest of the UK. and although many are couched in loose terms, leaving plenty of room for back tracking, it seems that something will have to be conceded in this respect. of course we shouldn't underestimate the efforts that our politicians will make to delay, dissemble, wrap themselves in the flag and give people the usual hoary patriotic nonsense (which sadly, a large number seem to fall for time and again), so as to convince people that they don't really want a chance to run their own affairs locally; however, perhaps, just perhaps, we may some real changes as a result of panic at the top, and some hasty promises made to shore up the crumbling edifice.

[Sir Og]

Should Ireland leave the Euro and make its own currency? I don't see how having your own currency is advantageous when you're so small.



Small countries aren't going to be able to stand up to financial oligarchies. They're more vulnerable to things like capital flight than a larger country.

The eurozone has been a disaster for everybody. ECB's tight money policy is now starting to hurt even Germany.
It is always optimal to have a stable nominal economy no matter how small or large the country.

Floating exchange rate takes care of capital flight.

[Imran Siddiqui]

possibly. the government and all main parties have promised some quite wide ranging new powers for scotland and more devolution for the rest of the UK. and although many are couched in loose terms, leaving plenty of room for back tracking, it seems that something will have to be conceded in this respect. of course we shouldn't underestimate the efforts that our politicians will make to delay, dissemble, wrap themselves in the flag and give people the usual hoary patriotic nonsense (which sadly, a large number seem to fall for time and again), so as to convince people that they don't really want a chance to run their own affairs locally; however, perhaps, just perhaps, we may some real changes as a result of panic at the top, and some hasty promises made to shore up the crumbling edifice.

There also seem to be some Tories indicating that in the DevoMax proposal for Scotland, there could be changes to Scottish MPs voting on purely England concerns as well. Which, IMO, is a good idea if further devolution is considered (and England doesn't have its own Parliament while Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland do).

[Hauldren Collider]

England doesn't *need* its own parliament. It's so much larger than the other 3 that whatever it wants it gets.

[Fake Boris]

How the media shafted the people of Scotland
by George Monbiot

Perhaps the most arresting fact about the Scottish referendum is this: that there is no newspaper – local, regional or national, English or Scottish – that supports independence except the Sunday Herald. The Scots who will vote yes have been almost without representation in the media.

There is nothing unusual about this. Change in any direction, except further over the brink of market fundamentalism and planetary destruction, requires the defiance of almost the entire battery of salaried opinion. What distinguishes the independence campaign is that it has continued to prosper despite this assault.

In the coverage of the referendum we see most of the pathologies of the corporate media. Here, for instance, you will find the unfounded generalisations with which less enlightened souls are characterised. In the Spectator, Simon Heffer maintains that: “addicted to welfare ... Scots embraced the something for nothing society”, objecting to the poll tax “because many of them felt that paying taxes ought to be the responsibility of someone else”.

Here is the condescension with which the dominant classes have always treated those they regard as inferior: their serfs, the poor, the Irish, Africans, anyone with whom they disagree. “What spoilt, selfish, childlike fools those Scots are ... They simply don’t have a clue how lucky they are,” sneered Melanie Reid in the Times. Here is the chronic inability to distinguish between a cause and a person: the referendum is widely portrayed as a vote about Alex Salmond, who is then monstered beyond recognition (a Telegraph editorial compared him to Robert Mugabe).

The problem with the media is exemplified by Dominic Lawson’s column for the Daily Mail last week. He began with Scotland, comparing the “threat” of independence with that presented by Hitler (the article was helpfully illustrated with a picture of the Führer – unaccompanied, in this case, by the Mail’s former proprietor). Then he turned to the momentous issue of how he almost wrote something inaccurate about David Attenborough, which was narrowly averted because “as it happens, last weekend we had staying with us another of the BBC’s great figures, its world affairs editor John Simpson”, who happily corrected Lawson’s mistake. This was just as well because “the next day I went to the Royal Albert Hall as one of a small number of guests invited by the Proms director for that night’s performance. And who should I see as soon as I entered the little room set aside for our group’s pre-concert drinks? Sir David Attenborough.”

Those who are supposed to hold power to account live in a rarefied, self-referential world of power, circulating among people as exalted as themselves, the “small number of guests” who receive the most charming invitations. That a senior journalist at the BBC should be the house guest of a columnist for the Daily Mail surprises me not one iota.

In June the BBC’s economics editor, Robert Peston, complained that BBC news “is completely obsessed by the agenda set by newspapers … If we think the Mail and Telegraph will lead with this, we should. It’s part of the culture.” This might help to explain why the BBC has attracted so many complaints of bias in favour of the no campaign.

Living within their tiny circle of light, most senior journalists seem unable to comprehend a desire for change. If they notice it at all, they perceive it as a mortal threat, comparable perhaps to Hitler. They know as little of the lives of the 64 million inhabiting the outer darkness as they do of the Andaman islanders. Yet, lecturing the poor from under the wisteria, they claim to speak for the nation.

As John Harris reports in the Guardian, both north and south of the border “politics as usual suddenly seems so lost as to look completely absurd”. But to those within the circle, politics still begins and ends in Westminster. The opinions of no one beyond the gilded thousand with whom they associate is worthy of notice. Throughout the years I’ve spent working with protest movements and trying to bring neglected issues to light, one consistent theme has emerged: with a few notable exceptions, journalists are always among the last to twig that things have changed. It’s no wonder that the Scottish opinion polls took them by surprise.

One of the roles of the Guardian, which has no proprietor, is to represent the unrepresented – and it often does so to great effect. On Scottish independence I believe we have fallen short. Our leader on Saturday used the frames constructed by the rest of the press, inflating a couple of incidents into a “habit” by yes campaigners of “attacking the messenger and ignoring the message”, judging the long-term future of the nation by current SNP policy, confusing self-determination with nationalism.

If Westminster is locked into a paralysing neoliberal consensus it is partly because the corporate media, owned and staffed by its beneficiaries, demands it. Any party that challenges this worldview is ruthlessly disciplined. Any party that more noisily promotes corporate power is lauded and championed. Ukip, though it claims to be kicking against the establishment, owes much of its success to the corporate press.

For a moment, Rupert Murdoch appeared ready to offer one of his Faustian bargains to the Scottish National party: my papers for your soul. That offer now seems to have been withdrawn, as he has decided that Salmond’s SNP is “not talking about independence, but more welfarism, expensive greenery, etc and passing sovereignty to Brussels” and that it “must change course to prosper if he wins”. It’s not an observation, it’s a warning: if you win independence and pursue this agenda, my newspapers will destroy you.

Despite the rise of social media, the established media continues to define the scope of representative politics in Britain, to shape political demands and to punish and erase those who resist. It is one chamber of the corrupt heart of Britain, pumping fear, misinformation and hatred around the body politic.

That so many Scots, lambasted from all quarters as fools, frauds and ingrates, have refused to be bullied is itself a political triumph. If they vote for independence, they will do so in defiance not only of the Westminster consensus but also of its enforcers: the detached, complacent people who claim to speak on their behalf.

[Fake Boris]

My $20 is on Scotland not getting anything.

[Ben Kenobi]

Doesn't Quebec get equalization?

England doesn't *need* its own parliament. It's so much larger than the other 3 that whatever it wants it gets.

HC - this isn't the case. There have been several occasions where the Scots vote has increased tuition in England while retaining tuition subsidies in Scotland. Essentially the Scots are voting to raise other people's taxes while retaining their own.

Also - you have to remember that the ratio of MPs in Scotland is 2x that of England.

[Fake Boris]

Some people are already claiming vote rigging has happened.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/.../Police-investigating...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJif7vISQg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBZi6HqDwcQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mryYRJKGjw8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xEGxc0ItdI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3EW0cIQYbE

[Bereta_Eder]

I wonder though why this alex salmond (sp?) guy didn't make his intentions clear about the currency,
Usually in politics you don't reveal a plan for two reasons:

a) you want to avoid attacks (they can't attack what they can't see)
b) you hold on your cards so you play them later during negotiations.

[C0ckney]

There also seem to be some Tories indicating that in the DevoMax proposal for Scotland, there could be changes to Scottish MPs voting on purely England concerns as well. Which, IMO, is a good idea if further devolution is considered (and England doesn't have its own Parliament while Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland do).

yes i expect that in any 'devo max' proposal, the 'west lothian question' will be resolved, presumably by making the SNP's principled stand on not voting on matters that don't affect scotland compulsory. i'm not sure we'll see any english parliament, or even that one would be desirable; we may see a revival of the regional assemblies idea though.

[Imran Siddiqui]

England doesn't *need* its own parliament. It's so much larger than the other 3 that whatever it wants it gets.

The problem is that non-English MPs have been the tipping point to decide English issues, esp when the Scottish MPs vote together on a close issue (tuition fees for English university students was one of these, I believe).

[regexcellent]

The entire tuition system for British universities is royally ****ed, doubly so in Scotland where there is none (which is outrageously stupid and awful).

[Sava]

What an idiotic statement.