Pope excommunicates the Mafia

[rah]

Worse, they were women. Fantastic, amazing ladies. Almost got married to one back in the day.

And then they figured you out and took to the hills.
A fate that you will probably experience many times in your life. Well deserved.

[Ben Kenobi]

Your whole "the church says or Jesus says" to justify your why you're right and everyone else is wrong seems to demonstrate otherwise.

I converted twice, becoming a Mennonite and then later Catholic. Again, I think you have to be pretty open-minded as someone who grew up in an Anglican family to do something like that in college. I don't know anyone else who did, most kept to their religion.

Changing religions is just traded what you're told to believe.

It's by definition a sign of 'open mindedness', and taking into consideration that you are less right than others.

Faith is not open minded by definition.

As opposed to someone who doesn't change in the slightest?

And then they figured you out and took to the hills.

Nope. The one I was closest to said she wasn't ready and we split. We're still friends now, though not as close as we used to be.

The other lady, we're very close friends now and always have been.

A fate that you will probably experience many times in your life. Well deserved.

Uh, if you asked the closest friend she'd say it was her, not me.

[kentonio]

They never made the assertion that their marriage was not a marriage, nor was it private as everyone alive knew.

Ah so because there was no-one around, they didn't need a witness? This witness thing seems to be losing importance by the second.

We don't even have any record of their female children. Genesis didn't record everything unfortunately.

If they were the children of the first man and women, then there must have been female children and incestuous offspring logically.

Bible brings this up in the context of Lot. First mention of it, but it was considered taboo from before, the knew it was wrong but chose to do it anyways. When it became this, is an open question. We don't know a whole lot about these times.

So you believe incest used to be fine until over time it became a 'taboo'?

[Ben Kenobi]

Ah so because there was no-one around, they didn't need a witness? This witness thing seems to be losing importance by the second.

By definition everyone alive knew. How is this less public than every other marriage?

If they were the children of the first man and women, then there must have been female children and incestuous offspring logically.

Yes, unfortunately Genesis doesn't record the name of her other children beyond Seth, Cain and Abel. It raises a couple questions, but Genesis as a historical source is a very, very old book. I believe there was more out there but it might not have been available to Moses.

So you believe incest used to be fine until over time it became a 'taboo'?

Genesis is unclear on this point and doesn't describe when this occurs. First 10 chapters are frustrating. Extremely, extremely important, but there's stuff missing. Big, big gaps.

[Berzerker]

So they were married without a witness? Thereby not actually being married by your definition? Or did they not get married until one of the kids had been born, therefore living in sin and having a child out of wedlock?

Incidentally, how did they explain to their children that the kids would have to commit incest with each other in order to prevent humankind from simple dying out? Is that conversation recorded anywhere, or did the kids just have to figure that one out for themselves?

I'll have to thank you for the chuckles

Which also raises the question of whether Adam and Eve's kids were married when they had their own incestuous children? Is this why Christians keep raising the issue of incest btw? I'd always assumed you guys were against it, but logically you'd have to be in favour given that your entire creation myth requires it.

Adam had children with his own rib

They never made the assertion that their marriage was not a marriage, nor was it private as everyone alive knew.

But they didn't have a witness and there was nobody else. Your assertion everyone alive knew aint in the Bible. And the fact you know somebody is married doesn't make their marriage "public".

Bible is pretty clear on how it happened, that they were married before and that it was God's plan for man with men and women to provide men a helper.

They had no witness and their marriage was not public - there was no public.

Bible brings this up in the context of Lot. First mention of it, but it was considered taboo from before, the knew it was wrong but chose to do it anyways. When it became this, is an open question. We don't know a whole lot about these times.

Weren't Abram and Sarai related?

[Ben Kenobi]

But they didn't have a witness and there was nobody else. Your assertion everyone alive knew aint in the Bible. And the fact you know somebody is married doesn't make their marriage "public".

Everyone alive knew they were married. They never pretended they weren't married.

Your assertion everyone alive knew aint in the Bible

You say there's others out there not Adam and eve. Is that in the bible?

[Berzerker]

Uh, I've known a few over the years and dealt with them.

You know me too... How should I react when you want the state to put me in cage because somebody else stole from you? How would you react if people put you in a cage with my blessing because somebody stole from me?

Yeah, it should be illegal. It's a psycho-active drug that people use to get high.

Why does that matter? Did God create pot and tell people not to use it? Its a medicine... Would you ban all other medicines people use to "get high". You'd be banning most pain medicines. And then you'd have to ban booze too, it can help with pain but people use it to get high. You'd have to put Jesus in jail, he supplied a bunch of wine for a wedding party. The word has come down from God and His prophet is Taliban Ben.

What state? The Vatican? That's maybe, what, 100 people? I'm not sure they are that big on dope there, but then I've never been.

Every state the Pope can influence through his army of Catholics. Now you're telling me the Pope has no power?

Am I going to get restitution from the ones who stole from my family to feed their habits?

They stole from you and you react by stealing everyone's freedom... You were the victim of a crime and you want to put millions of people in cages in your search for justice.

What crimes do Catholics commit in order to practice Catholicism?

Haven't y'all been at war with other people since the beginning? You Christians cant even get along. How did the Church react to astronomers? They weren't too fond of Jews either, or anyone else who didn't do the goosestep. You cant be serious, the Pope just said millions of people should be attacked and hurt for using pot. Seems to me your religion depends on crime. Maybe it should be banned too, huh?

Dopeheads consistently steal to pay for their dope. This is an issue.

So we have you to thank for them stealing from us because you made their drug more expensive. And what you said aint true, you're accusing people you dont know of being thieves while you steal our freedom.

Dopeheads have been consistent in theft

Some steal, most dont... Most have jobs. You are bearing false witness against them.

If deaf people kept stealing from you on a regular basis to pay for their hearing aids, yeah I can see you being upset.

Should I demand deaf people be put in cages?

Then why isn't, "dopeheads steal from me" a good argument against expanding their number?

But you have expanded their number, banning drugs makes them more expensive so dopeheads who steal will need more money. Its a shame you think guilt by association is a good argument, its the basis of racism.

What is more important to you, dope or private property, Berz. Would you steal if it meant getting a fix?

Dope is private property. And no, did I steal from you?

A black man has never stolen my wallet. Dopeheads have stolen from me many times. If black men regularly stole from me, yes it would affect my opinion of black people.

Should black people be jailed for being black if black men steal from you?

So why are you supporting gay marriage? You should be opposed to it.

So what you're saying is that you should have all the state benefits regarding marriage (which makes it public). If it's public it must be witnessed. No way around that.

You should be opposing them getting marriage licenses. Why aren't you?

I oppose licenses, not marriage... You're the one endorsing state interference, not me.

[Berzerker]

Everyone alive knew they were married. They never pretended they weren't married.

Who witnessed their marriage? How did people outside the Garden know they were married?

You say there's others out there not Adam and eve. Is that in the bible?

Yes it is, mankind was created on the 6th Day. What day was Eve created? God took Adam to the Garden and Adam lived for a while before Eve joined him. These other people made on the 6th Day were not in the Garden. They were living westward, possibly in Ethiopia.

[molly bloom]

Which is exactly my point, Molly. Why were there no ROMAN CATHOLIC Bishops in England.

Because of the religious wars in Europe ? Because the head of the Roman Catholic Church sanctioned the treasonous murder of the Queen of England ? Because ordinary people grew tired of waiting for a notoriously corrupt and corrupting 'universal' church to reform itself ?

They seem like good reasons to me .

Were Italy and Spain majority Roman Catholic?

Yes. And ? Having a majority of one faith precludes dissent, does it ? It didn't in the British Isles.

Also, 'English Catholic' refers to a Roman Catholic.

Anglicanism wa snot formed in the same way as Lutheranism or Calvinism. As far as I know, the Anglicans I meet consider themselves Catholic, simply not 'Roman' Catholic. And Anglican means English.

Hope this has helped you.

And the Calverts left so that they could practice their religion freely in America, something they could not do in England at the time.

The Act of Toleration in Maryland also promised liberty of worship to all who believed in Jesus. Did the Church of Rome take a similarly generous, Christian stand in the Low Countries, Bavaria, Spain, Portugal, the Americas et cetera ?


A simple yes or no will suffice.

[Sava]

God deliberately separates children from their mother or father all the time, so God must not think that children have that right.

I can confirm children have no right to their parents. My dad suffered a stroke when I was 5. I'm sure God was somewhere giving a gay hippie aids.

[molly bloom]

Remember, I'm also single .

No, really ? How surprising.

[Ben Kenobi]

You know me too... How should I react when you want the state to put me in cage because somebody else stole from you? How would you react if people put you in a cage with my blessing because somebody stole from me?

Having you forego dope is not, 'putting you in a cage'. If it feels that way, Dope has way too big a hold over you.

Why does that matter?

It matters because folks like me end up cleaning behind folks like you.

Did God create pot and tell people not to use it?

God told people to use it in a responsible manner, for sustenance, not for getting high. You can huff paint thinner, doesn't mean that it was the way in which it was intended to be used. Arguing your dope habit is therapeutic and getting state benefits to get high doesn't strike me as a very libertarian position.

Its a medicine...

It can be, but let's be honest. We wouldn't be having this argument if dope didn't get people high. People use it to get high.

Would you ban all other medicines people use to "get high".

I would regulate them so that their primary use wasn't to get high - which means not available in 'dispensaries' etc. People getting high off powerful drugs is drug abuse, not use. There's a difference.

You'd be banning most pain medicines. And then you'd have to ban booze too, it can help with pain but people use it to get high. You'd have to put Jesus in jail, he supplied a bunch of wine for a wedding party. The word has come down from God and His prophet is Taliban Ben.

Yawn, "Taliban Ben", for wanting dope to stay illegal. Yeah, sure. You gonna reimburse me and my family for what we've had stolen? Does anybody really care? Nope. So I'm gonna oppose legalization because of the irresponsibility of some dope users. Perhaps if dope users were more responsible they could be trusted.

Every state the Pope can influence through his army of Catholics. Now you're telling me the Pope has no power?

If I believed that my justification for opposing it was the Catechism, don't you think I would have stated so?

They stole from you and you react by stealing everyone's freedom

They stole from me, and as a consequence, stole from my freedom, and my family's freedom. Again, smokers don't steal from me. Dopeheads have. It ain't prejudice if it's justified by prior ****ty behavior.

You were the victim of a crime and you want to put millions of people in cages in your search for justice.

If it were one instance, yes, I could see your point. My experience is that dopeheads believe their right to get high trumps everybody else's rights, which explains why they use it so irresponsibly.

Haven't y'all been at war with other people since the beginning?

Uh, no.

You Christians cant even get along. How did the Church react to astronomers?

What culture did they arise to become honored? Ours.

They weren't too fond of Jews either

Sure, but the holocaust wasn't carried out by us.

, or anyone else who didn't do the goosestep. You cant be serious, the Pope just said millions of people should be attacked and hurt for using pot. Seems to me your religion depends on crime. Maybe it should be banned too, huh?

It's a crime and it should remain one. I agree with Pope Francis on these matters, but, for me, it's more important how irresponsible dope users have had a profound negative effect on the life of me and my family. Yes, crime victims are usually against the crime not being considered a crime.

So we have you to thank for them stealing from us because you made their drug more expensive.

So this is how you justify stealing the private property of others and committing crimes without regard to the victims. Thanks for answering my question, Berz, that when the chips are down, you love private property less than scoring dope.

you're accusing people you dont know of being thieves while you steal our freedom.

Oh, so you're saying that when the dope pusher in the neighborhood scored my fathers snowblower and bragged about it?

Most have jobs. You are bearing false witness against them.

Even the ones that have jobs will steal to feed their habit because they regard Dope as more important to them than respect for private property.

Should I demand deaf people be put in cages?

If dope is so important to you, dope has put you in a cage, voluntarily.

But you have expanded their number, banning drugs makes them more expensive so dopeheads who steal will need more money. Its a shame you think guilt by association is a good argument, its the basis of racism.

Doesn't justify from stealing from innocent neighbors who have the misfortune of living next to an addict. Hey, guess what, making their lives hell means that you've cultivated forever enemies.

Dope is private property. And no, did I steal from you?

No, you haven't. Others have - but blaming innocents is the wrong way to go, Berz. Do you not see it from my perspective?

If black men regularly stole from me, yes it would affect my opinion of black people. Should black people be jailed for being black if black men steal from you?

If black people regularly stole from me, I would not want to associate with them and would go out of my way to avoid contact. Despite the negative stereotypes, black people, by and large, have treated me kindly.

Dopeheads, otoh? You've been good to me for the most part. Others not. Some of my closest friends have an addiction problem, and I've the unenviable choice of remaining friends and helping them off the dope or leaving. I like them but I don't want them to think I'm enabling and approving their use, to their own detriment.

I oppose licenses, not marriage... You're the one endorsing state interference, not me.

So why are you supporting gay marriage licenses?

[kentonio]

Yawn, "Taliban Ben", for wanting dope to stay illegal. Yeah, sure. You gonna reimburse me and my family for what we've had stolen? Does anybody really care? Nope. So I'm gonna oppose legalization because of the irresponsibility of some dope users. Perhaps if dope users were more responsible they could be trusted.

You had stuff stolen while dope was illegal, so you want to keep it illegal to stop people stealing from you. Your logic is appalling.

[N35t0r]

My family has had stuff stolen by catholics who later were absolved from their sins after confession to a priest. Will you reimburse us for those, BK?

[MRT144]

I like how Ben is voting against drug legalization because of personal spite. Not because he thinks itd be better for society, not because he deeply cares about the issue of drug use, nope, because someone wronged him and now he's going to take it out on every class of person who uses drugs.

It's remarkably similar to how catholics treat women - they can't be trusted and thats why they're 2nd class citizens in the church.