Pope excommunicates the Mafia

[N35t0r]

Yeah, sorry. If you'll insist to argue whatever you want and pay no attention to what I say, and spew nonsense, then I'm not bothering any more.

[Elok]

Yeah, sorry. If you'll insist to argue whatever you want and pay no attention to what I say, and spew nonsense, then I'm not bothering any more.

Is this your first time arguing with him? Or have you recently sustained some manner of head trauma?

[Ming]

Terrible argument. At least we have confirmation from Ming if someone dies it was God's punishment for sins.

Again, where do I say that... OH THAT'S RIGHT, you are the one saying it, not me.
Still trying to change the discussion...

Try again Bennie...

[Berzerker]

Ok, so you're stating then that the Catholic church was in fact persecuted in England. Thank you.

I never said otherwise, you accused me of saying that.

I believe that dopeheads are willing to lie so that they can get high, absolutely I do.

Now you're bearing false witness

When you bring up stuff from 17 centuries ago? You really think Catholics today should be responsible for what happened then?

I said the Catholic Church has been using the state to persecute people for ~1700 years and you said Catholics were persecuted in England. Your rebuttal has nothing to do with what I said. And I can bring stuff up today, the Pope says pot should be illegal. He's using the state to hurt millions of people. And if I applied your collective guilt against "dopeheads" to Catholics, then Catholics should be punished for the crimes of other Catholics. Thats what you want done to "dopeheads", right? You want them punished because a dopehead stole your property. If somebody who doesn't use dope steals your property, will you demand all non-drug users be punished too? If a Catholic steals my property should I call for the punishment of all Catholics?

So your argument is because alcohol contributes to a significant number of crimes, that it means it's ok for dopeheads to commit crimes too?

If you wanted to ban booze and you suffered from the resulting crime wave, it wouldn't be okay, just ironic. You blame all drug users because a drug user stole your property. If a deaf person stole my property should I blame you?

So you're saying it's ok to steal from me because dope is illegal?

No, please use quotes.

So how does that justify theft of other people's property to get your fix? What is more important to you - dope or private property?

Dope is private property...and if someone steals from you they should be punished, it dont matter one bit if they stole from you for a fix or love of money or God. If a black man stole your wallet would you demand the jailing of black people?

So again, marriage, as it concerns property is a public act. This is a refutation of your argument.

A married couple's property is not public

It's the tradition in America. Are you arguing otherwise?

Polygamy is far older than we are, its found in the Bible.

Why? If people love each other who are you to say no?

I didn't say no to polygamy etc, I said no to barring them. Go look at your question again.

In order for the marriage to receive state recognition. Are you arguing that gay people should be permitted to marry in private, but not get licenses?

I just told you I dont believe in licenses to marry. And the state's concern is with following property ownership. If children are involved then guardianship becomes relevant.

I'm not quite sure how the argument that Adam and Eve were created for each other can be used to justify gay marriage.

How does Adam and Eve justify requiring a witness? You said marriage requires a witness.

Then why are you supporting gay marriage?

I dont have the moral authority to decide who you can marry

[Ben Kenobi]

Now you're bearing false witness

Uh, I've known a few over the years and dealt with them.

I said the Catholic Church has been using the state to persecute people for ~1700 years and you said Catholics were persecuted in England.

Yes, in America and in England, it is the Church that has been persecuted.

Your rebuttal has nothing to do with what I said.

It's not a one way street.

And I can bring stuff up today, the Pope says pot should be illegal.

Thank you. Yeah, it should be illegal. It's a psycho-active drug that people use to get high.

He's using the state to hurt millions of people.

What state? The Vatican? That's maybe, what, 100 people? I'm not sure they are that big on dope there, but then I've never been.

And if I applied your collective guilt against "dopeheads" to Catholics

Am I going to get restitution from the ones who stole from my family to feed their habits?

then Catholics should be punished for the crimes of other Catholics.

What crimes do Catholics commit in order to practice Catholicism?

Thats what you want done to "dopeheads", right? You want them punished because a dopehead stole your property.

Dopeheads consistently steal to pay for their dope. This is an issue.

If somebody who doesn't use dope steals your property, will you demand all non-drug users be punished too? If a Catholic steals my property should I call for the punishment of all Catholics?

Dopeheads have been consistent in theft. Sure, if someone steals a chicken I'm going to be upset. But if coyotes keep taking them, that's going to need to be dealt with. It's not just one time, it's been many times.

You blame all drug users because a drug user stole your property. If a deaf person stole my property should I blame you?

If deaf people kept stealing from you on a regular basis to pay for their hearing aids, yeah I can see you being upset.

So you're saying it's ok to steal from me because dope is illegal? No, please use quotes.

Then why isn't, "dopeheads steal from me" a good argument against expanding their number?

What is more important to you - dope or private property?

What is more important to you, dope or private property, Berz. Would you steal if it meant getting a fix?

Dope is private property...and if someone steals from you they should be punished, it dont matter one bit if they stole from you for a fix or love of money or God. If a black man stole your wallet would you demand the jailing of black people?

A black man has never stolen my wallet. Dopeheads have stolen from me many times. If black men regularly stole from me, yes it would affect my opinion of black people.

This is a refutation of your argument. A married couple's property is not public

In order to determine whether or not someone is actually married requires public record of marriage.

Polygamy is far older than we are, its found in the Bible.

And Reynolds would argue, America is not the rest of the world. Americans should live by American traditions, which includes English Common Law.

I just told you I dont believe in licenses to marry.

So why are you supporting gay marriage? You should be opposed to it.

And the state's concern is with following property ownership. If children are involved then guardianship becomes relevant.

So what you're saying is that you should have all the state benefits regarding marriage (which makes it public). If it's public it must be witnessed. No way around that.

How does Adam and Eve justify requiring a witness? You said marriage requires a witness.

Yes. Did Adam and Eve raise their children and tell them that they were just 'friends with benefits', and 'not really married'?

I dont have the moral authority to decide who you can marry

You should be opposing them getting marriage licenses. Why aren't you?

[N35t0r]

Is this your first time arguing with him? Or have you recently sustained some manner of head trauma?

When typing that post, I was wondering exactly the same thing

[kentonio]

Yes. Did Adam and Eve raise their children and tell them that they were just 'friends with benefits', and 'not really married'?

So they were married without a witness? Thereby not actually being married by your definition? Or did they not get married until one of the kids had been born, therefore living in sin and having a child out of wedlock?

Incidentally, how did they explain to their children that the kids would have to commit incest with each other in order to prevent humankind from simple dying out? Is that conversation recorded anywhere, or did the kids just have to figure that one out for themselves?

Which also raises the question of whether Adam and Eve's kids were married when they had their own incestuous children? Is this why Christians keep raising the issue of incest btw? I'd always assumed you guys were against it, but logically you'd have to be in favour given that your entire creation myth requires it.

[Bereta_Eder]

Ben what if there was a divine plan that you'd only get married if you accepted gay civil unions.
Would you do it?

[rah]

I did. I found Catholicism.

Using this as proof that you're open minded is hilarious.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben what if there was a divine plan that you'd only get married if you accepted gay civil unions.
Would you do it?

No. Same as, "what if God came to you and told you to kill your roommate?"

I'd assume that it was an imposter.

[Ben Kenobi]

Using this as proof that you're open minded is hilarious.

Given as I was raised and baptized Anglican, it's actually true. You have to be pretty open minded to convert. I am not sure I would have had I not gone to university and been exposed to some wonderful Catholics.

[C0ckney]

some catholics exposed themselves to you?! were they priests by any chance?

[Ben Kenobi]

So they were married without a witness?

They never made the assertion that their marriage was not a marriage, nor was it private as everyone alive knew.

Thereby not actually being married by your definition? Or did they not get married until one of the kids had been born, therefore living in sin and having a child out of wedlock?

Bible is pretty clear on how it happened, that they were married before and that it was God's plan for man with men and women to provide men a helper.

Incidentally, how did they explain to their children that the kids would have to commit incest with each other in order to prevent humankind from simple dying out?

One of their kids killed another one of their kids. Man, it's like they were real sinners back then.

Is that conversation recorded anywhere, or did the kids just have to figure that one out for themselves?

We don't even have any record of their female children. Genesis didn't record everything unfortunately.

Which also raises the question of whether Adam and Eve's kids were married when they had their own incestuous children? Is this why Christians keep raising the issue of incest btw? I'd always assumed you guys were against it, but logically you'd have to be in favour given that your entire creation myth requires it.

Bible brings this up in the context of Lot. First mention of it, but it was considered taboo from before, the knew it was wrong but chose to do it anyways. When it became this, is an open question. We don't know a whole lot about these times.

[Ben Kenobi]

some catholics exposed themselves to you?! were they priests by any chance?

Worse, they were women. Fantastic, amazing ladies. Almost got married to one back in the day.

[rah]

Given as I was raised and baptized Anglican, it's actually true. You have to be pretty open minded to convert. I am not sure I would have had I not gone to university and been exposed to some wonderful Catholics.

Your whole "the church says or Jesus says" to justify your why you're right and everyone else is wrong seems to demonstrate otherwise.
Changing religions is just traded what you're told to believe.
Faith is not open minded by definition.