Pope excommunicates the Mafia

[Ben Kenobi]

Deflecting again I see.

What is there to deflect? That would imply that you've sent something my way. I asked a question, you've refused to answer it.

[Sava]

Guys, he's done the same thing he always does and fooled us into engaging with him before dragging the conversation into a steaming pile of strawmen, lies and ridiculous nonsense.

We should all be ****ing ashamed of ourselves for falling for this yet again.

You should feel proud. You've contributed to my entertainment this morning.

[C0ckney]

Uh, Atheists agree with me here. This isn't hard. Atheists believe there is no God, not that you can become God if you try hard enough.

still don't understand the difference between 'be' and 'become' i see. a dictionary really would be a worthwhile investment for you.

And that they all have marriage is an argument for the ontological existence of Marriage. It's also an argument that even if you were to redefine marriage, that the same need for the institution exists, so that there will simply be marriage again, and that what is marriage will continue to be referred to as marriage.

asserting the self-same nonsense ten times doesn't make it true.

also i find your use of the word 'you' interesting here. presumably when you say "you can redefine marriage" you mean "governments, the legal authorities, who actually decide who can marry whom, can redefine marriage, in accordance with social realities", as this in fact is what has happened.

According to whom? You? Again, marriage has an ontological reality. It doesn't matter what you call 'marriage'. Marriage still exists. You could redefine things so that gravity did not exist, it still wouldn't change the fact that it does.

according to society, and as part of the wider process of declining religious influence on our lives, both direct (people themselves becoming less religious) and indirect (religious organisations having less influence on society).

That's what we are seeing, marriage rates are in freefall, just as I predicted.

marriage rates have been falling since the late 60s in the US. nothing to do with gay marriage.

Not yet. We're getting there though.

What about the children who are deprived a mother and father? That's going to have a huge impact on them for the rest of their lives.

yes society is collapsing and children are being abandoned by their parents because of gay marriage.

see, this is exactly the sort of ridiculousness that your hateful bigotry drives you to.

[C0ckney]

You should feel proud. You've contributed to my entertainment this morning.

yeah work is slow today and laughing at ben's bigotry and stupidity has been entertaining.

[Bereta_Eder]

well that's the thing with religion.

first, i think it's where you "inherited it from"
for me it was from my grandma, a great loving and very strong person so religion tends to be associated with that.

then when i see humble priests helping out, giving word of soothing and wise advise i really like it.

when it gets its ugly conservative, xenophobic face, i don't like it.
however i'm very far away from the established church. christmas (and very most importantly) easter, yes. but this is tradition, interwoven with life.

i did asearch to find out the stance of various churches on issues we are discussing.
they seem to be very subtle in stating things that go against society's acceptance of what's fair at this given time.

i just find it depressing that one would be denied of his/her spiritual need (if he/she has it) just because of being who he is and not because he is a bad person. i find this revolting. i have the suspision that this is handled in close cooperation with one's religious father and that harsh words are not spoken. or i would like to believe this is the case.

and i doubt that society is in any danger from gays, it is in dire danger from hostilities though and intolerances and irrational thinking

[rah]

i just find it depressing that one would be denied of his/her spiritual need (if he/she has it) just because of being who he is and not because he is a bad person.

Ben, and those like him, get around this by just declaring that since they're gay and refuse to give it up, that they are bad people.

[Sava]

yeah work is slow today and laughing at ben's bigotry and stupidity has been entertaining.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, and those like him, get around this by just declaring that since they're gay and refuse to give it up, that they are bad people.

You'd argue that pedophiles should be stripped of their facilities. How is this any different? People who are unwilling to follow the teachings of the church and who persistantly publicly dissent should be kicked out - they can join a church that does support what they believe.

If you as a man want to get married to another man, great. Just not in the Catholic church. And don't expect the parishioners to support you if you choose to place serving your personal desires over what the Church teaches.

It's called freedom of association.

[rah]

If you want to get married, great. Just not in the Catholic church.

Actually I can go along with this. If you're gay don't bother trying to get married in the Catholic Church.

But stop saying that they can't get married outside the church. That shouldn't be your problem. And that's why people think your a bigoted douche.

[Ben Kenobi]

yes society is collapsing and children are being abandoned by their parents because of gay marriage.

If your car isn't driving well, most take their car in to get fixed rather than ripping parts out.

still don't understand the difference between 'be' and 'become' i see. a dictionary really would be a worthwhile investment for you.

Once again, atheists are people who reject the concept of God entirely, not people who preach they can eventually become God, or people who believe they are already God.

You believe you are God, Cockney?

asserting the self-same nonsense ten times doesn't make it true.

Then why do so many cultures that disagree on many other things have marriage if it wasn't filling an ontological need in these societies? See, you assume that the reason that society does things is because it's arbitrary. What you don't see is that this applies just as much to your changes as the rest. You seem to believe that your changes are 'how society ought to be', and that once society has changed to reflect your values, that this is how it should stay.

The problem with this worldview is that it is wholly incompatible with the argument that marriage is a social construct. If it is, then gay marriage can simply blow away too, and removing gay marriage is just society rejecting your changes just as you reject marriage as it is today.

also i find your use of the word 'you' interesting here. presumably when you say "you can redefine marriage" you mean "governments, the legal authorities, who actually decide who can marry whom, can redefine marriage, in accordance with social realities", as this in fact is what has happened.

I mean you because you believe that the government's values ought to reflect your own and believe any value that society holds in opposition to yours to be 'arbitrary'. Essentially you believe that society should serve you not the other way around.

according to society, and as part of the wider process of declining religious influence on our lives, both direct (people themselves becoming less religious) and indirect (religious organisations having less influence on society).

Since you believe that 'society' is no different from 'what I believe', this amounts to you expressing your personal opinion.

[Ben Kenobi]

Actually I can go along with this. If you're gay don't bother trying to get married in the Catholic Church.

Which is why the government in the UK is currently attacking the Catholic church there, and trying to force them to do gay marriage, exactly as I predicted they would do, years ago.

They won't leave the Catholic church alone, rah.

But stop saying that they can't get married outside the church. That shouldn't be your problem. And that's why people think your a bigoted douche.

Marriage is a public matter. You've said so yourself. The reason people say I'm a bigoted douche is because they personally disagree with my opinion. Insofar as marriage is a public matter and the state is going to insist on governing marriage, I am going to fight for traditional marriage.

Call me bigoted all you like. It has no more meaning than, "I disagree".

[rah]

Actually not the same. I going by the live and let live type of thinking (which is how the Catholic church taught me to back in the days) where you're more the "since it's not consistent with my believes, you can't do it"

That's a big difference and why I consider you a bigot. Them getting married has no negative effect on you except in your tiny little mind.

[Bereta_Eder]

Can present day native Greek speakers understand ancient Greek? Is it similar to reading "old english" for a native English speaker?

I don't know what old english is, but yes native greek speakers can understand pretty much ancient greek. not all and not always but for the most part i'd say, yes.

for example i can't speak ancient greek but I understood completely the whole passage Ben wrote.

in a funeral of a beloved person, i understood large parts of the litourgy (in ancient greek of course) and it moved me and helped me

[Sava]

[rah]

BK wants to infringe on the rights of a whole group of people that have never harmed him in any way. That goes against every christian teaching that I've ever had.