Palestinian Christians Refuse To Be Pushed Off Their Land

[C0ckney]

it's easy to understand the 'siege mentality' that palestinians have, many of them actually being under siege. it's also possible to understand some of the more extreme israeli positions, though to a much lesser extent, the israelis being in a much better position. what does not make sense however, is the commitment of western zionists, who suffer none of the pressures that israelis face, and most of whom indeed, have no connection whatsoever with israel, yet support without question every extreme action taken by israel.

[Bereta_Eder]

that is indeed curious.
i can understand oerdin, reg and even hc but not ben

[The Mad Monk]

Just two months ago the PLO and Hamas entered into a so called Palestinian unity government so you have a Palestinian Authority half controlled by a self described terrorist organization which embraces violence, continues to carry out terrorist attacks, and refuses to even agree that Israel has a right to exist.

How can Israel negotiate with such people? It can't.

This isn't PLO or Hamas. It is a farming family within Israel's jurisdiction. I don't care if "the Palestinians" have thrown out every peace agreement, this has nothing to do with that and everything to do with Israel's conduct with it's own residents.

[molly bloom]

When Jewish people repeatedly reject peace offers and instead decide to support terrorism then get back to me.

Two things wrong with your statement: racism is ignorant and stupid and wrong, whatever you think the justifications for it are. Secondly, 'tu quoque' is not an excuse for the same behaviour in return.

As for Jewish people supporting terrorism, well, that's hardly an innovation.

As Count Folke Bernadotte could tell you, except that he was assassinated by Jewish terrorists in 1948.

Geula Cohen, a former Knesset member on the nationalist far right who in 1948 was a 17-year-old broadcaster on Lehi's clandestine radio, recalls the chilling threats she personally directed at Bernadotte over the airwaves in the weeks before the assassination. "I told him if you are not going to leave Jerusalem and go to your Stockholm, you won't be any more." Did she still think, 60 years later, it was right to kill him? "There is no question about it. We would not have Jerusalem any more."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israels-forgotten-hero-the-assassination-of-count-bernadotte--and-the-death-of-peace-934094.html

The widow of Ahmed Bouchikhi can tell you though :

Israel's intelligence service, Mossad, acted without Norwegian help in a botched 1973 assassination in the ski resort of Lillehammer, a national commission concluded yesterday.
Norwegians have long speculated about involvement by their own police or intelligence service in the killing, which has been shrouded in secrecy for 27 years, and which has been a sore point in otherwise warm relations between Norway and Israel.

On July 21 1973, a team of Israeli hitmen shot dead a Moroccan waiter, Ahmed Bouchikhi, as he walked home from the cinema with his pregnant wife in the resort, 110 miles north of Oslo.

The assassins apparently mistook Bouchikhi for Hassan Salameh, a PLO intelligence chief suspected of masterminding the killing of 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics.

"This was much more than a murder," said Gullow Gjeseth, head of the six-member government commission. "This was a violation of Norwegian sovereignty. It is a completely special case."


In January 1996, Israel paid undisclosed compensation to Bouchikhi's family but did not admit responsibility for the killing.

"No one pays out compensation unless they are guilty," Torill Larsen Bouchiki, widow of the murdered waiter, said yesterday.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/mar/02/israel

[molly bloom]

Were the Bantu in Cape Colony as long as the Boers?

You're incredibly dim. The first black African settlers in southern Africa arrived 2 000 years ago.

What, now or before? There's a ton of Zimbabweans in South Africa.

Many are political refugees, many are economic migrants. South Africa was employing black Rhodesians even before the removal of the racist regime in Rhodesia. It's nothing new.

Plenty from all over Africa that have moved into South Africa for work.

'Plenty'. I love how you're so vague when you're talking about things you don't know. 'A ton' of Zimbabweans. So you number black Africans by weight, do you, as if they were a commodity ? Fits with the way you think about them I suppose.

That they have been dispossessed of Cape Colony while at the same time all the other homelands are still there

The 'homelands' were and are nothing of the sort. They were an artifical creation and designation of the apartheid era government.

White folks have gone from about 22 percent of South Africa to just 9 percent.

Emigration and lower birth rates.

If that happened to black folks, anywhere, we'd be calling it genocide.

Offensive, wrong and stupid.

This is the kind of nonsense you spout :

Two, yes, South Africa is a ****hole. It used to be a decent place.

As I pointed out, you are and were wrong about apartheid South Africa. It was never a 'decent' place, by any stretch of the imagination. When there's a government created famine in the Ukraine, you go all sob story and start blabbing about the Holodomor.

There was a government created famine and malnutrition in apartheid South Africa. Unfortunately the victims don't seem to have been white (although they were Christian) and thus seem to be beyond the reach of your tears and sympathy.

As I informed you :

When black South African children suffered kwashiorkor and pellagra in a two year drought and the then apartheid government sold surplus maize abroad at a price lower than the Maize Board's domestic price and threw away surplus milk ?

Apartheid South Africa repeatedly destroyed surplus fruit and milk so that government control boards could artificially keep up prices.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CC4QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fapolyton.net%2Fshowthread.php%2F203206-It-should-be-possible-to-ungive-the-Noble-Prize%2Fpage3&ei=tt2mU9y1EoGN7QazqYDgAw&usg=AFQjCNEQK9R1wk4-5sZcz4YVG3_UMD88-g&bvm=bv.69411363,d.ZGU

[Dr Strangelove]

"If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country I would never lay down my arms. Never! Never! Never!" - William Pitt

[Al B. Sure!]

A couple years ago when he last spouted this nonsense about South Africa, I recommended Ben read Kaffir Boy. The point would probably be lost on him, however. Mark Mathabane's success would be interpreted as apartheid South Africa being a bastion of equality of opportunity.

[Ben Kenobi]

A couple years ago when he last spouted this nonsense about South Africa, I recommended Ben read Kaffir Boy. The point would probably be lost on him, however. Mark Mathabane's success would be interpreted as apartheid South Africa being a bastion of equality of opportunity.

Why would I bother reading the same post-colonial crap I've had shovelled down my throat for years? Again - just because I disagree with you doesn't mean that I don't understand your perspective.

[Ben Kenobi]

i cant fathom the possibility of them sitting down with someone like ben and talking abut things.

I live in a country not my own where I cannot vote, and I pay taxes to a state that has no desire or interest to represent me. The difference is that you don't see me going around and arguing that Americans do not have legitimate authority to govern their land.

And before you stop and say, "but you're not American", two of my great grandparents were born in America. In effect, I have American ancestors going back farther than this lady has lived in Israel.

[Al B. Sure!]

Wow. An apartheid apologist. You don't see them anymore.

[Ben Kenobi]

this has nothing to do with that and everything to do with Israel's conduct with it's own residents.

TMM, you're in Kansas, right?

To put it in perspective, Israel is roughly the size of Massachusetts. The disputed territory is roughly a quarter of the total size of Israel. Israel would be the 44th largest state, and without the disputed territories would be larger than Delaware, Rhode Island and Connecticut, only.

If you take out the part that is the Negev, Israel is just 4,000 square kilometers. That's not even a notable size for a county here in the states.

[Ben Kenobi]

An apartheid apologist. You don't see them anymore.

Explain to me how more than 2/3rds of all white people leaving South Africa is a triumph of peaceful coexistence. It's not.

De Klerk's ideal is a failure. Apartheid has won, Albert.

South Africa being a bastion of equality of opportunity

It's such a bastion that 2/3rds have fled South Africa. Most would call that genocide.

[Al B. Sure!]

Wow. You teach history?

[Ben Kenobi]

Wow. You teach history?

You betcha.

What would you say if 2/3rds of the black population of the United States left in just 30 years?

[The Mad Monk]

TMM, you're in Kansas, right?

To put it in perspective, Israel is roughly the size of Massachusetts. The disputed territory is roughly a quarter of the total size of Israel. Israel would be the 44th largest state, and without the disputed territories would be larger than Delaware, Rhode Island and Connecticut, only.

If you take out the part that is the Negev, Israel is just 4,000 square kilometers. That's not even a notable size for a county here in the states.

That's true. That's also irrelevant to the situation as given.