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  • Originally posted by Sava View Post
    The form of radical Islam we're dealing with today pre-dates the US.
    Wahhabi a nice day.

    I respect Stephen Schwartz’s work exposing the depredations of the Wahhabis, but when I saw this piece in the Weekly Standard, I thought it important to note that the interpretations Schwartz attributes to the Wahhabis by no means originated with them. Why? Because otherwise people will be deceived into thinking that if we can stop the Wahhabis, the problem of radical Islam will disappear. Unfortunately, it isn’t so. The problem is older, wider, and deeper than the Wahhabi phenomenon.

    Here is the relevant part of Schwartz’s piece with commentary from me:


    The Wahhabi Koran is notable in that, while Muslims believe that their sacred text was dictated by God and cannot be altered, the Saudi English version adds to the original so as to change its sense in a radical direction. For example, the opening chapter, or surah, is known as Fatiha, and is recited in Muslim daily prayer and (among non-Wahhabis) as a memorial to the dead. The four final lines of Fatiha read, in a normal rendition of the Arabic original (such as this translation by N.J. Dawood, published by Penguin Books): Guide us to the straight path, / The path of those whom You have favored, / Not of those who have incurred Your wrath, / Nor of those who have gone astray.

    The Wahhabi Koran renders these lines: Guide us to the Straight Way. / The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who have earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians). The Wahhabi Koran prints this translation alongside the Arabic text, which contains no reference to either Jews or Christians.

    There is nothing to indicate to the uninformed reader that these interpolations, printed in parentheses, are absent from the Arabic. The reader encountering Islam for the first time, as well as the Muslim already indoctrinated in Wahhabism, is led to believe that the Koran denounces all Jews and Christians, which it does not.
    I respect Stephen Schwartz's work exposing the depredations of the Wahhabis, but when I saw this piece in the Weekly Standard, I thought it important to note that the interpretations Schwartz attributes to the Wahhabis by no means originated with them. Why? Because otherwise people will be deceived into thinking that if we can stop...
    Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.

    ...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915

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    • Originally posted by AAAAAAAAH! View Post
      NO WE DEFINITELY DIDN'T SWITCH BODIES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
      which one of you wore the bra on your head?
      I wasn't born with enough middle fingers.
      [Brandon Roderick? You mean Brock's Toadie?][Hanged from Yggdrasil]

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      • Originally posted by Sava View Post
        The form of radical Islam we're dealing with today pre-dates the US.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi_movement
        Do you think I am not aware of that?
        But America gave it a nice boost worldwide by

        1) Supporting Saudi Arabia
        2) Supporting fundamentalists (including Ibn Ladin!) in Afghanistan)

        3) Supporting Israel, which radicalised Arabs and Muslims in general, made them turn to USSR and then to fundamentalists
        4) Supporting Israel which actually supported radical islamists (Hamas) against secular PLO...
        5) Destroying Iraqi state, making local sunnis turn to islamism after Al-Baath was dissolved, and destroying Iraqi police force, armed forces etc, which now can not cope with the rise of islamism
        6) Destabilising Syria thus, additionally a politics than allowed neither of the secular sides to win, which - together with the neighbourhood of the collapsed Iraq - led to the rise of ISIS
        "I realise I hold the key to freedom,
        I cannot let my life be ruled by threads" The Web Frogs
        Middle East!

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        • Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
          Unless we stay there indefinitely as in South Korea.
          Somehow I suspect South Korea's government wouldn't collapse if we left.

          And their army was never the "take off your uniforms tuck tail and run" type, except at the very beginning of the Korean War.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

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          • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
            Somehow I suspect South Korea's government wouldn't collapse if we left.
            It would lead to a rather destructive war though.
            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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            • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
              Somehow I suspect South Korea's government wouldn't collapse if we left.

              And their army was never the "take off your uniforms tuck tail and run" type, except at the very beginning of the Korean War.
              Cut your rolling eyes. I'm not talking about South Korea in 2014 after 64 years of us being there.

              The history of South Korea of the 1960's, 70's, and even 80's was one filled with popular uprisings (April 1960 Revolution and June 1987 Uprising), military coups (1961 and 1979), and assassinations (Assassination of President Park Chung-hee). That was all with a large US military presence. And then there's the whole matter of their countrymen in the North...

              If we left South Korea immediately after the Korean War, the country would have turned out very differently.
              "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
              "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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              • Yes, I agree. That said it was never the rolling shit-show that South Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq have been.
                If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                ){ :|:& };:

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                • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                  Yes, I agree. That said it was never the rolling shit-show that South Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq have been.
                  How do you know this? We have remained in South Korea for 64 years. If we weren't there, maybe South Korea would have gone the way of everywhere else we left. South Korea had a lot of instability even with our massive presence there. Without us being there, those revolutions and coups could have turned out a lot bloodier.
                  "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                  "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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                  • I agree with Albert. Obama dropped the ball here.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • Shia militias now formed and on the move. I really can't see this ending well, but I guess that depends how you define "well."
                      1011 1100
                      Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                      • Originally posted by Heresson View Post
                        Do you think I am not aware of that?
                        Your statement certainly suggested as much.
                        To us, it is the BEAST.

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                        • Tony Blair is struggling with denial.


                          Tony Blair rejects 'bizarre' claims that invasion of Iraq caused the crisis
                          'We have to liberate ourselves from the notion that "we" caused this', argues former prime minister in website essay


                          'We have to liberate ourselves from the notion that "we" caused this', argues former prime minister in website essay



                          For TB: YOU (in part) DID CAUSE THIS

                          Take some fucking responsibility, you whiny little shit.
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

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                          • Saddam wasn't a good guy.
                            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
                              Saddam wasn't a good guy.
                              Neither are the rulers of about 70% of the world.... should we intervene? Let's start with China.
                              There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.

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                              • The Sunni extremists have posted a bunch of pictures on twitter claiming it shows them round up military aged Shia'a men to be executed. They claim that they executed more than 300 men in Tikrit yesterday.

                                The Sunni extremist group that has taken territory across Iraq has posted photos online that appear to show its fighters massacring a large number of Iraqi army personnel.
                                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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