is this a real thing that is actually happening?

[Aeson]

The good thing about our screw-up in Iraq is now we are less likely to do the same thing in Iran. Not because we've learned our lesson ... but because now Iran might be useful.

[notyoueither]

the problem that those who say iraq wouldn't have been a mistake if there had been a proper post war plan is explaining what that plan would have been. it is of course a very easy argument to make 'if things had been better planned, they would have gone better', until you get down to the details. it comes from a lack of understanding about these places; the historical and political contexts and the inability to ask fundamental questions, like: why is iraq even a country? what holds it together? (the answer to this one was until 2003: a strongman with an iron fist and a strong party infrastructure) to list but two examples.

there is also the issue of balancing giving the people a say (or at least, the illusion of a say), as in creating a democracy, with western interests in the region. so for example the option of a federal iraq, dividing iraq along ethnic and religious lines, with a weak central government had to be balanced against the fact that southern iraq would be strongly influenced by its co-religionists in iran. this is in fact what is likely to happen following the latest upheavals, which is no doubt a source of delight and not a little amusement in tehran right now.

Start with don't disband the army and send trained men home with weapons...

There is simple **** that they ****ed up from day 1 after getting rid of the regime.

[C0ckney]

nye, see post 167.

[The Mad Monk]

And they say that pot makes you a docile pacifist!

You should have seen him before he started!

[Dr Strangelove]

If memory serves me correctly that treaty had a clause to negotiate a final troop status with the U.S. A 15,000 man contingent of U.S. troops just being there might have been enough to deter ISIS. Also from memory, I believe that the sticking point was Iraqi insistence that U.S. troops accused of crimes on Iraqi soil would have to be tried in Iraqi courts...something Obama rightfully did not agree to. I do think that he should have pushed the issue harder than he did. While it is to much to believe that the mere presence of U.S. troops in a country brings stability, it certainly would be a stabilizing influence compared to abandoning a country right after gutting it.

Currently everything I'm reading says that even the old die-hard hawks have no desire to use American ground troops in Iraq so it's really a moot point.

[PLATO]

Currently everything I'm reading says that even the old die-hard hawks have no desire to use American ground troops in Iraq so it's really a moot point.

I agree, but it would probably have been different if we had 15,000 troops based in the Sunni Triangle. Personally, I hope we let them sort it out themselves now. Nothing hamstrings a group more than becoming an actual government.

[DinoDoc]

I agree, but it would probably have been different if we had 15,000 troops based in the Sunni Triangle. Personally, I hope we let them sort it out themselves now. Nothing hamstrings a group more than becoming an actual government.

Hamas totally became peaceful after taking over part of the Palestinian Territories.

[PLATO]

Hamas totally became peaceful after taking over part of the Palestinian Territories.

They are not the actual government. Nice try.

[C0ckney]

also being in charge of an area under siege by, and facing attack from, a hostile power, makes peace a bit hard.

[Dr Strangelove]

I agree, but it would probably have been different if we had 15,000 troops based in the Sunni Triangle. Personally, I hope we let them sort it out themselves now. Nothing hamstrings a group more than becoming an actual government.

15,000 service persons engaged in maintaining old bases translates into how many actual fighting troops, if any?

[Felch]

also being in charge of an area under siege by, and facing attack from, a hostile power, makes peace a bit hard.

How hard is it to not randomly fire rockets at your neighbors? I'm a well-armed, drug-fueled maniac, and I've never fired rockets at any of my neighbors. Not even the Jews.

[dannubis]

You would if they took your land and relocated you to whatever piece of crap they didn't want.

[Sava]

How hard is it to not randomly fire rockets at your neighbors? I'm a well-armed, drug-fueled maniac, and I've never fired rockets at any of my neighbors. Not even the Jews.

I'm sure if they had a first world economy, they'd "randomly" fire rockets at countries halfway around the world... like we do.

[Bereta_Eder]

America and their brit lackey went in despite solid opposition from every country that mattered, massacred 500.000 people, completely fecked the country up, failed to even plunder their oil properly and now they say "oh mommy, is this really happening"

[Bereta_Eder]

peace