is this a real thing that is actually happening?

[Dinner]

Shia militias now formed and on the move. I really can't see this ending well, but I guess that depends how you define "well."

You have a bunch of yokels handed guns but not really any uniforms or training. They are at best a defensive militia and more likely an ill disciplined mob of dubious military value.

[Aeson]

Shia militias now formed and on the move. I really can't see this ending well, but I guess that depends how you define "well."

It may "end well" ... as in result in the burning of oil wells.

[Elok]

You have a bunch of yokels handed guns but not really any uniforms or training. They are at best a defensive militia and more likely an ill disciplined mob of dubious military value.

I'm sure ISIS are more experienced, but I don't get the impression that they're exactly Navy SEAL material either. More like standard irregular light infantry, in it for the plunder.

[Elok]

Anyway, I see this unfolding like a fast-motion version of the Peloponnesian War: a horrendous bloody stalemate finally cut short by Persian money.

[kentonio]

I'm sure ISIS are more experienced, but I don't get the impression that they're exactly Navy SEAL material either. More like standard irregular light infantry, in it for the plunder.

They apparently sucked as soldiers until Syria, where they became much better (or died).

[AAAAAAAAH!]

why does your dumb**** country follow along like a good little poodle?

[dannubis]

****; fly... you know the story.

[Dr Strangelove]

They have their own "special forces" consisting largely of Chechen veterans.

[Sava]

I bet all the morons who backed the toppling of Saddam must be feeling extra stupid now...

The problem is that they don't realize their stupidity. If they were able to feel as stupid as they are, we wouldn't have this mess.

[Sava]

why does your dumb**** country follow along like a good little poodle?

The only thing worse than a bully is his little pussy sidekick.

[Sava]

I agree... That c*nt Blair was able to pull the wool over my country's eyes too...

At the very least though, we can be proud that the majority of the public of our country was against the war - and not caught up with the blind rabid nationalism of the US...

but no counter-troll

[C0ckney]

The Kurds are in control of Kirkuk, not Mosul. The Turkish government is expressing dismay over this turn of events. With their considerable army they could sweep through the middle of ISIS controlled territory and trap the insurgents deep in Iraq, but they would have to pass through Kurdish or Syrian territory.

i missed this. although of course turkey is completely opposed to a kurdish state, there has been a lot of practical co-operation between turkey and the kurdish government in northern iraq for years. for example the kurds send and market their oil and gas through turkey; this obviously has caused a lot of friction between the kurds and the iraqi government.

turkey is extremely unlikely to intervene militarily in iraq.

[self biased]

I just like how for the expense of $4 trillion, the outcome is exactly the complete and utter opposite of what the US set up to achieve in the first place

it might be the tinfoil hat i'm wearing, but i think that the publicly stated goal of the whole Iraq intervention and what the true aims and goals were, are significantly different things.

[molly bloom]

You mean people like sloww, Ben, Dino, the Kuci runts etc...

I spy an incorrect consonant.

[Geronimo]

I bet all the morons who backed the toppling of Saddam must be feeling extra stupid now...

Even though I imagine most here mainly remember my opposition to the 2003 invasion of Iraq, I really only adopted that stance when it became clear that it would not be possible to secure NATO, let alone UN, endorsement of and involvement in the war.

I accepted that if there was strong evidence that Iraq was producing WMDs and was in defiance of multiple UNSC resolutions that some sort of military response might be the least evil of the available options.

I did not and still do not recognize such a military option as somehow intrinsically immoral and at the time I was very frustrated with all of the opposition to UN involvement in an action against the Iraqi government that seemed rooted in that idea. Even in hindsight, I find the idea that exercise of military force is always a crime is very destructive and I certainly don't think those opponents to action against Iraq have been vindicated by subsequent events in the slightest. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Given that even someone such as myself who ended up opposing the Iraq war before it began can persist in thinking that it was appropriate (even in hindsight!) to consider military intervention against Iraq in 2003, I'd hazard a guess that it's still not hard to find morons (especially the morons in fact) who backed the toppling of Saddam who don't feel stupid now.