Supreme Court rules in favor of public legislative prayers

[Ben Kenobi]

Children are not govt officials, and I believe its by oath or affirmation - the latter was added by Christians who believe Jesus condemned oath taking

Would that apply also to the Ironclad oath?

your faith - your religious freedom - cannot oblige me to pay for it

Christians are not required to check their faith at the door. It is permissible for them to practice their religion through prayer in the workplace. If we took your argument, religion (unlike other forms of expression), would be banned. It's also unenforceable. If I cross myself would that be grounds for dismissal?

Do you mean Congress and Obamacare? No... but they're making us pay for the Pledge and you apparently do support that.

Who is making you pay for it? Banning the pledge from public schools is an abuse of the government. If people want it, I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to say the pledge.

From children every damn day they go to school? I cant even find a power for Congress to be involved with schools and you're telling me the Pledge is constitutional because politicians take the oath of office?

What exactly is bad about having kids say the pledge? They have to learn plenty of things that they don't like. Having students learn the pledge, learn the constitution, learn the declaration of independence is an important part of an education in American civics.

But there is coercion to participate... And the teachers are told to participate too.

This is America. Why would Americans be offended at the Pledge? It's as American as Apple pie and sending Texans to the moon.

It was Christians and govt who destroyed native American culture

What 'native American culture'? Every tribe had their own culture and their own way of doing things.

Two, do you see 'liberty', in the sense that you understand it as a core component of the culture of most tribes? I don't see it.

Apparently there is no connection between liberty and Christianity. Do you believe this, Berz? I see a connection between Jesus and liberty, Christianity not so much

I'm not quite sure how you come up with a coherent worldview that associates liberty with Jesus and not Christianity.

[Ben Kenobi]

Legislators aren't merely "working for" the government... they ARE the government.

Some of us still believe that government is for the people by the people and of the people. Like an unknown man named Lincoln once said.

Others believe that rights are granted by a benevolent and all seeing state.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

Some of us still believe that government is for the people by the people and of the people. Like an unknown man named Lincoln once said.

Yes, legislators are elected by the people to form a government... we don't have a House of Lords.

Others believe that rights are granted by a benevolent and all seeing state.

No idea where you're getting this.

[Felch]

All 3 of your definitions refer to the difference, force or intimidation. I did what they told me for fear of retaliation, I was not forced, I was coerced.

What retaliation? It's illegal for a teacher to punish you for not saying the Pledge. It's illegal for them to intimidate you into saying the Pledge. It is not illegal for them to ask or persuade you into saying the Pledge. See the difference?

So children should be wary of social harm if they refuse to recite the Pledge? Children are not likely to invite the wrath of their teachers, that makes the "request" coercive.

WTF? Were you born without balls? I went out of my way to invite the wrath of my teachers. I usually said the pledge because you know, AMERICA FUCK YEAH, but trolling teachers was how I had fun during the long boring hours of class time.

[DinoDoc]

WTF? Were you born without balls?

He's British. The answer without exception is yes.

[Kidlicious]

Having balls and having ADD are two different things.

[Fake Boris]

It's tough being an atheist when so many atheists are annoying preachy ****heads who care and get upset about all the wrong things.

Secularism

[Berzerker]

Christians are not required to check their faith at the door. It is permissible for them to practice their religion through prayer in the workplace. If we took your argument, religion (unlike other forms of expression), would be banned. It's also unenforceable. If I cross myself would that be grounds for dismissal?

I dont have religious freedom at work

Who is making you pay for it?

Congress

Banning the pledge from public schools is an abuse of the government.

It was the government that mandated the Pledge... Millions of children told every day to stand and swear their allegiance to a flag and the god it represents. Christians were martyred by Rome for not reciting their pledges

What exactly is bad about having kids say the pledge?

Read what Jesus said for starters... He called it hypocrisy

They have to learn plenty of things that they don't like. Having students learn the pledge, learn the constitution, learn the declaration of independence is an important part of an education in American civics.

Learning what documents say is not the same as swearing daily oaths to the state's god

This is America. Why would Americans be offended at the Pledge? It's as American as Apple pie and sending Texans to the moon.

It was America long before the Pledge

What 'native American culture'? Every tribe had their own culture and their own way of doing things.

Christian missionaries flooded reservations and tribal lands and tried to commit cultural genocide by wiping out the Indian way of life.

I'm not quite sure how you come up with a coherent worldview that associates liberty with Jesus and not Christianity.

Most Christians dont believe in liberty

What retaliation? It's illegal for a teacher to punish you for not saying the Pledge. It's illegal for them to intimidate you into saying the Pledge. It is not illegal for them to ask or persuade you into saying the Pledge. See the difference?

It dont matter if its illegal, you just admitted children are subject to possible "social harm" if they dont comply with the Pledge. That makes the request to recite the Pledge coercive. Agents of the state - teachers no less - telling children to stand and pledge their allegiance to the state and it's god. Yippee

WTF? Were you born without balls? I went out of my way to invite the wrath of my teachers. I usually said the pledge because you know, AMERICA FUCK YEAH, but trolling teachers was how I had fun during the long boring hours of class time.

So you were an ahole in school, you must be so proud.

[Hauldren Collider]

Oncle Boris is the precise type of atheist I despise. He's merely substituted traditional religion for the far more perverse and destructive religion known as socialism. But he goes around calling himself an atheist anyway.

[kentonio]

Oncle Boris is the precise type of atheist I despise. He's merely substituted traditional religion for the far more perverse and destructive religion known as socialism. But he goes around calling himself an atheist anyway.

Even when it comes to being an atheist you can't help being a damn idiot.

[Kidlicious]

Even when it comes to being an atheist you can't help being a damn idiot.

Fake Borus isn't really dumb, but you have to admit that most atheists are really dumb. Otherwise you're dumb. Also kucibro is super dumb.

[kentonio]

Fake Borus isn't really dumb, but you have to admit that most atheists are really dumb. Otherwise you're dumb. Also kucibro is super dumb.

Sure you want to start a debate about whether atheists or religious people are smarter? Really?

[Pax]

http://news.msn.com/us/bible-curriculum-part-of-green-evangelization-push

I am a protestant Christian. I am also for separation of church and state.
In my current job as a government employee, we have prayer everyday. Those who wish to not pray or bow their heads can do so, but in reality there is no way to turn off your ears. Of course, you can ignore or think about something else during the prayer, but really...Praying actually takes of man seconds that turn to minutes that turn to hours that turn to...Since I am a Christian and the prayer is Christian based ALL the time, I don't have a big problem. But if it was a Catholic prayer, Muslim Prayer, Satanism or something where someone spoke for a few moments about how there is no god, I would feel that there views are being forced on me. Add to the fact that there are so many interpretations of religion even among the same denominations, I often get irritated during the prayer for example when someone refers to Jesus as God.
If it wasn't already a common practice too pray as whole, I would prefer that we prayed separately if we wanted to pray. Also there are atheists at my job that do look uncomfortable every time they have to stand and look around at the believers bowed heads.
In addition, I feel that it is really a full court press for the ultra religious to attempt to make this country into the American Holy Empire. There are so many different angles that the Religious Right is attacking on that before you know it we will resemble http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_This_Goes_On%E2%80%94
I believe that if you want to stand on a corner, go door to door, have television shows and etc that's fine. But indoctrinating kids, state sponsored/supported/sanctioned/conducted prayer should be illegal.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

Oncle Boris is the precise type of atheist I despise. He's merely substituted traditional religion for the far more perverse and destructive religion known as socialism. But he goes around calling himself an atheist anyway.

You're the worst type... the kind with no balls... I'm surprised you don't call yourself an "agnostic".

[regexcellent]

Oncle Boris is the precise type of atheist I despise. He's merely substituted traditional religion for the far more perverse and destructive religion known as socialism. But he goes around calling himself an atheist anyway.

In particular, Oncle Boris doesn't get any pro-science points since he believes in all sorts of pseudoscientific nonsense like organic food.