Supreme Court rules in favor of public legislative prayers

[The Mad Monk]

The same number of times I've taken anyone else to court. See? Parity.

[Sava]

If you fought a traffic ticket instead of just paying the fine, that's taking the government to court.

I've done that with just about every ticket I've ever gotten... and been mostly successful

It costs more. But I'm one of those stubborn "for the principle" people.

Come to think of it, if you are found not guilty of something, the government should pay your legal defense costs.

[Berzerker]

I don't think it's beyond the bar of the government to have their officials swear an oath.

Children are not govt officials, and I believe its by oath or affirmation - the latter was added by Christians who believe Jesus condemned oath taking

You don't have to check your faith at the door, Berz.

Thats true, but your faith - your religious freedom - cannot oblige me to pay for it

Also, your state is attempting to force me to pay for contraception. Do you support that, Berz?

Do you mean Congress and Obamacare? No... but they're making us pay for the Pledge and you apparently do support that.

Then there's no coercion.

Kentonio's link suggests coercion may be involved, but I never said there was coercion.

Theologically, there's an issue, I agree. But constitutionally, requiring an oath of loyalty isn't prohibited.

From children every damn day they go to school? I cant even find a power for Congress to be involved with schools and you're telling me the Pledge is constitutional because politicians take the oath of office?

There's no requirement for participation in the pledge.

But there is coercion to participate... And the teachers are told to participate too.

The real question is whether liberties can be sustained in the face of a government deprived of Christian influences.

It was Christians and govt who destroyed native American culture

Apparently there is no connection between liberty and Christianity. Do you believe this, Berz?

I see a connection between Jesus and liberty, Christianity not so much

What the **** do you think that means?

What did I say it means? I did answer that already, twice.

Let's look up the definition of coercion in a few online dictionaries...

Dictionary.com - 1) the act of coercing; use of force or intimidation to obtain compliance. 2) force or the power to use force in gaining compliance, as by a government or police force.

Merriam-Webster.com - 1) to restrain or dominate by force 2) to compel to an act or choice 3) to achieve by force or threat

Wiktionary - 1) Actual or threatened force for the purpose of compelling action by another person; the act of coercing. 2) Use of physical or moral force to compel a person to do something, or to abstain from doing something, thereby depriving that person of the exercise of free will.

My brain isn't really seeing a difference between coercion and force

All 3 of your definitions refer to the difference, force or intimidation. I did what they told me for fear of retaliation, I was not forced, I was coerced.

If you hold me at gunpoint, it's coercion because there's the threat of violence (i.e. force). If you just feel like you need to say the Pledge to fit in, nobody is coercing you. You're just a weak willed wuss.

If people truly oppose saying the Pledge, then they should stick to their position in spite of whatever social harm it does them. It won't always be easy to stand by your ideals, and it's good for people to learn this lesson when the stakes are at their lowest.

So children should be wary of social harm if they refuse to recite the Pledge? Children are not likely to invite the wrath of their teachers, that makes the "request" coercive.

I wouldn't be so sure..

That is over the top

[Hauldren Collider]

The proof of God's existence is in your heart. The universe makes it clear. You only have to want to believe it.

Piss off.

[Hauldren Collider]

Being a little preachy aren't you?

I never preach to people about being atheist. Or tell them to stop having fun because they're offending my lack of a religion.

[Sava]

Maybe you should.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Awfully quick to act apologist for government waste

I'm a Democrat and a Government worker - I LOVE government waste

[Sava]

[Guynemer]

I never preach to people about being atheist. Or tell them to stop having fun because they're offending my lack of a religion.

Good man.

The point being, of course, and you and I keep our atheism to ourselves, so hey maybe everyone else do the same? Especially where it doesn't really fit, like government hearings?

Basically, you know, could people of any and all faiths maybe just not be an ******* about whatever their faith is?

[DaShi]

Nonsense. It is my duty to spread my lack of faith to damn the unwashed masses.

[ColdWizard]

Basically, you know, could people ... maybe just not be an ******* about whatever ...?

No.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

I wonder what Senator Wiglaf thinks...

[AAAAAAAAH!]

I never preach to people about being atheist. Or tell them to stop having fun because they're offending my lack of a religion.

Religion is a waste of time and a tool of con artists... so showing people how stupid it is is a service to humanity

[Ben Kenobi]

you and I keep our atheism to ourselves, so hey maybe everyone else do the same?

What part of 'free exercise' of religion is not getting through. Folks have the right to practice their religion. They don't have to check their coat at the door if they are working for the government.

[AAAAAAAAH!]

Legislators aren't merely "working for" the government... they ARE the government.