You've Been Invited to Her Place...

[notyoueither]

Personally, I prefer a yes. I've mentioned on Poly before, I've left coy women high and dry, or as wet as they may have been. I don't like to date repressed women. If she can't say she likes it, wants it, and yes please, she's a lot less attractive.

Life's too short for bull**** and people who are fundamentally dishonest.

[MrFun]

Life's too short for bull**** and people who are fundamentally dishonest.

[Kidlicious]

i understand all of that. we've just been talking about it! however, i don't see what that has to do with what you said about feelings.

unless you're saying that all non-court bodies decide things based on 'feelings'? are employment tribunals' decisions based on 'feelings'?

The criminal court system in the US and elsewhere does not base judgements on feelings. Guilt is determined by objective facts and figures. When you move away frim that, to a "victim-centered" decision making process you substitute objectivity for feelings. That is, when you see the victim crying etc you "think" she is telling the truth.

I don't think I can explain it better.

[Kidlicious]

[citation needed]

What for? Do you agree that presumption of innocence is the proper standard? If not you are trying to waste my time.

[Kidlicious]

When's the last time you set foot on a university campus? How do you know what conditions are like in colleges right now?

You mean I'm guilty of not getting caught up in the rape hysteria because I'm old?! That's discriminatiin!

[Kidlicious]

To meet the standard of equal treatment innocence must be presumed in all cases. What we have here is one gender not presumed innocent but the other really is because they are not affected by this change. Nobody would even think of taking away women's rights for something like this. That's where we are at today.

[C0ckney]

These people?

http://www.yesmeansyes.com/consent-0

Come on, have you been living in a cave?

errrr, from the front page of your link.

Consent is a mutual verbal, physical, and emotional agreement that happens without manipulation, threats, or head games.

Consent is a whole body experience. It is not just a verbal “yes” or “no” – it involves paying attention to your partner as a person and checking in with physical and emotional cues as well.

[C0ckney]

The criminal court system in the US and elsewhere does not base judgements on feelings. Guilt is determined by objective facts and figures. When you move away frim that, to a "victim-centered" decision making process you substitute objectivity for feelings. That is, when you see the victim crying etc you "think" she is telling the truth.

I don't think I can explain it better.

non-court bodies, which use different standards of proof to criminal courts, decide about matters of fact all the time. civil courts use the balance of probabilities to decide cases. unsurprisingly a college disciplinary hearing will not use the same standards or methods as a criminal court; in the same way as an employment tribunal wouldn't. i don't see why this is difficult to understand.

[C0ckney]

Personally, I prefer a yes. I've mentioned on Poly before, I've left coy women high and dry, or as wet as they may have been. I don't like to date repressed women. If she can't say she likes it, wants it, and yes please, she's a lot less attractive.

Life's too short for bull**** and people who are fundamentally dishonest.

making things clear.

[Kidlicious]

non-court bodies, which use different standards of proof to criminal courts, decide about matters of fact all the time. civil courts use the balance of probabilities to decide cases. unsurprisingly a college disciplinary hearing will not use the same standards or methods as a criminal court; in the same way as an employment tribunal wouldn't. i don't see why this is difficult to understand.

Do you understand that innocent men are being kicked out of school, because your comments don't indicate e that?

[kentonio]

Do you understand that innocent men are being kicked out of school, because your comments don't indicate e that?

Do you understand that the burden of proof in a court case for rape is extremely high, and a lot of men walk free from court after committing rape because it's a case of his word against hers? Can you further manage to process the idea that a university letting someone they are convinced is a rapist continue to live on their campus because they can't meet that high burden of proof is unacceptable to them?

Alternatively tell me that you'd be fine with your daughter being raped at college by a man the college knew had committed a previous rape, because they hadn't wanted to kick him out because they hadn't had 100% proof?

Sure there's potential for injustice there, but there's also lots of potential for rapists being allowed to continue living in close proximity to their victims and to possible future victims. That is not stuff universities can take lightly.

[Kidlicious]

Do you understand that the burden of proof in a court case for rape is extremely high, and a lot of men walk free from court after committing rape because it's a case of his word against hers? Can you further manage to process the idea that a university letting someone they are convinced is a rapist continue to live on their campus because they can't meet that high burden of proof is unacceptable to them?

Alternatively tell me that you'd be fine with your daughter being raped at college by a man the college knew had committed a previous rape, because they hadn't wanted to kick him out because they hadn't had 100% proof?

Sure there's potential for injustice there, but there's also lots of potential for rapists being allowed to continue living in close proximity to their victims and to possible future victims. That is not stuff universities can take lightly.

Convinced? We're talking about "more likely than not." Watch your language.

[C0ckney]

Do you understand that innocent men are being kicked out of school, because your comments don't indicate e that?

are they? also this doesn't address any of the point i've made.

let's take another scenario. a university student is accused of cheating on an exam and called before a disciplinary hearing. do you think they should use a criminal court standard of proof in such cases?

[Kidlicious]

are they? also this doesn't address any of the point i've made.

let's take another scenario. a university student is accused of cheating on an exam and called before a disciplinary hearing. do you think they should use a criminal court standard of proof in such cases?

Do you understand that if there's a 51% chance someone is guilty, there is a 49% chance he is innocent. Question: how many cases like that before you kick innocent kids out of school?

[Kidlicious]

FYI to be kicked out of college for cheating the burden of proof rests on the accuser.