When will the Catholic church just give in to secularism

[Ben Kenobi]

Thanks for your answer, however the situation you described isn't exactly the same.

It's a real life situation. I don't see it as nearly as cut and dried as you've made yours out to be.

I asked about a family where 2 kids were of mom 1 and the other kid was of mom 2.
Also they are very happy together.

I don't see it as significantly different from what I've actually seen to warrant different advice.

So should they leave eachother if they want to become christians?

They should go back to the respective fathers of their children. It doesn't mean you stop being close with each other.

If you know a 3rd way, please let me know!

For my mother's friend, my mother was quite surprised when she invited us both to attend her wedding. I declined as I had work and school and it was in California. Did I expect that she would find someone? No. She was very unhappy with how her life was going and it wasn't hard to see when I had to look after her place for her. It was a very lonely and depressing place. Treading water and had been for a long time. I was rather shocked she opened up to me but... I guess she figured that since she and my mom were close that she could trust me too.

For all the hue and cry here, I have known quite a few folks who were at one point gay and turned away from it. Some close friends of mine. People have this impression of me like I'm Jack Chick on Catholics, but... the reality is very boring. I'm a deaf guy - so I'm much more outspoken here than in person. It's not true that you can't change. It's not easy, but it's entirely possible and usually reality is much more complicated than just "I'm 100 percent gay".

[Kidlicious]

Do you think the father's are just waiting for them to come back?

[pchang]

Yes. Turkey basters are quite forgiving.

[N35t0r]

I can actually see gays trying to force priests to marry them in the future.

What I find it really strange is a supposedly secular country allowing religious figures to perform legally binding contracts (civil marriages). I guess a lot of the fuss over gay marriage over there comes from this... Over here, civil/legal marriage and religious marriage are two separate things (like they should be IMHO), the first performed by government figures (justices of peace) and the latter by religious figures (priests, rabbis, etc.)

When you have priests performing government contracts, then it's not completely unreasonable for people to demand them not to discriminate. It's much easier (and simpler) to keep both functions separate.

[pchang]

And the Pope is now from Argentina too, so he should be used to this concept.

[Kidlicious]

Yes. Turkey basters are quite forgiving.

I oppose turkey baster marriage.

[Kidlicious]

What I find it really strange is a supposedly secular country allowing religious figures to perform legally binding contracts (civil marriages). I guess a lot of the fuss over gay marriage over there comes from this... Over here, civil/legal marriage and religious marriage are two separate things (like they should be IMHO), the first performed by government figures (justices of peace) and the latter by religious figures (priests, rabbis, etc.)

When you have priests performing government contracts, then it's not completely unreasonable for people to demand them not to discriminate. It's much easier (and simpler) to keep both functions separate.

You can get married at the courthouse here. I don't know if you know that.

[Ben Kenobi]

Do you think the father's are just waiting for them to come back?

I don't know. I think it's worth giving it a shot. In most cases the fathers are already involved (either through child support or whatnot), and I think most would vastly prefer having a larger say with their children. Like I said, I know a few folks in this situation, on both ends of the deal.

[Ben Kenobi]

What I find it really strange is a supposedly secular country allowing religious figures to perform legally binding contracts (civil marriages). I guess a lot of the fuss over gay marriage over there comes from this... Over here, civil/legal marriage and religious marriage are two separate things (like they should be IMHO), the first performed by government figures (justices of peace) and the latter by religious figures (priests, rabbis, etc.)

When you have priests performing government contracts, then it's not completely unreasonable for people to demand them not to discriminate. It's much easier (and simpler) to keep both functions separate.

The difference is English Common Law - something with which Francis may not have substantial experience. I'm guessing that Argentina's law system is closer to the French civil law? I don't honestly know.

[N35t0r]

You can get married at the courthouse here. I don't know if you know that.

Yeah, I know. Totally not my point.

[Imran Siddiqui]

To be honest, my response was the same as Kid's to that question. I think the confusion comes that the priest, rabbi, etc. is simply a licensed officiate. He signs off on the marriage certificate, but his authority to make the marriage valid under state law is through the state. It depends upon the state whether a minister has to register with the state prior to performing official marriages or not.

[Kidlicious]

Yeah, I know. Totally not my point.

I wasn't making a point, but as Imran says, a priest doesn't decide who can't get married, only who he won't marry.

[molly bloom]

For all the hue and cry here, I have known quite a few folks who were at one point gay and turned away from it.

Do me a big favour- develop carpal tunnel syndrome, you pullulating bag of arse gas.

[N35t0r]

To be honest, my response was the same as Kid's to that question. I think the confusion comes that the priest, rabbi, etc. is simply a licensed officiate. He signs off on the marriage certificate, but his authority to make the marriage valid under state law is through the state. It depends upon the state whether a minister has to register with the state prior to performing official marriages or not.

It just strkes me as odd. Like giving AAA officials the ability to issue drivers licences, for instance.

I wasn't making a point, but as Imran says, a priest doesn't decide who can't get married, only who he won't marry.

So you'd be OK with a shop owner deciding he won't give service to blacks?

[Kidlicious]

So you'd be OK with a shop owner deciding he won't give service to blacks?

A better comparison would be the shop owner refusing to sell something to a person who he knows is going to use the item to do something immoral.