Detroit police chief: Legal gun owners can deter crime

[Ben Kenobi]

it's amusing, although not surprising, that you ben, with no knowledge of portuguese, are trying to lie to me, a fluent speaker, about what something written in the langauge says. the two line section you quoted, doesn't say what you claim it says. who do you think you're fooling?

Perhaps next time you'll stick to English. I took the time to actually read an excellent article by the same author which does a much better job of concisely expostulating his thesis. Hence the quote.

[Ban Kenobi]

Oh please, anyone could read a 132 page paper in a language they don't speak in just one hour and understand it.

[C0ckney]

Perhaps next time you'll stick to English.

studies about brasil, written by brasilians, unsurprisingly tend to be written in portuguese. if you want english sources, maybe you should do you own damn research.

I took the time to actually read an excellent article by the same author which does a much better job of concisely expostulating his thesis. Hence the quote.

of course you did.

josé fauri, the guy whose opinion is given in your two snippet, was not one of the authors of the paper. they were antônio rangel bandeira and josephine bourgois, who also give a list of contributors, which of course, does not include josé fauri.

didn't some dude called moses say something about bearing false witness?

[C0ckney]

The thief does assume the risks inherent in his profession.

the point though is that the risk to perpetrator, the victim and indeed passersby, increases when the victim is armed.

[Ben Kenobi]

actually read an excellent article by the same author

Google and reading comprehension is your friend.

[Ben Kenobi]

studies about brasil

Detroit is a foreign country? Last I checked this thread is about America, not Brazil. English sources, for an American topic are generally not hard to find if one takes a short time to look for them.

maybe you should do you own damn research.

You can't find any American sources on an American topic? You have to reach for a study in Portuguese, (one which doesn't even back you up?)

josé fauri, the guy whose opinion is given in your two snippet, was not one of the authors of the paper. they were antônio rangel bandeira and josephine bourgois, who also give a list of contributors, which of course, does not include josé fauri.

The article actually lists some other American sources which he says also provide commentary worth reading on this subject. The article as a whole is actually quite balanced, and makes no such claim that guns increase rather than deter crime.

didn't some dude called moses say something about bearing false witness?

I'm not the one who conveniently cuts around a source, quotes it in a non-English language, buries it in a 200 page paper and then misrepesents the selective citation. That's all you. I'm glad I took the time to check up on your author and find out what he actually had to say, in it's entirety.

Of course, you like being the sole determinant of what is read and understood which is why you didn't quote an American source.

It's all part for the course, isn't it Cockney? You can't win on the merits, so you evade however you can. That's your best source? You're done here.

[Ben Kenobi]

the point though is that the risk to perpetrator, the victim and indeed passersby, increases when the victim is armed.

The author takes pains to point out that the actual risk assessment regarding the likelihood of confrontations was not assessed. The study was limited only to those confrontations which occurred. To do a study based on likelihood of confrontations - you'd have to try to control all the variables (location, time of day), etc. There's also the feedback that those who live in areas where this occurs more frequently are also more likely to arm themselves.

But, you're not really here for the science, are you Cockney?

[C0ckney]

Just when you think Ben couldn't stoop any lower...

i would say it's unbelievable, but it's ben after all...

[Ben Kenobi]

Also, why the **** did you live there in the first place?

Because it was my home and where I grew up for the first 18 years of my life. Yes, that city was the worst in recent studies. It's a bad combination of quite a few factors. It's the largest city in a wide geographic area with a very large hinterland, so you get lots of folks from a region that really is quite poor and difficult to make a living in good times. It's not even coal country. Then you combine it with the Mines shutting down, and the timber industry shutting down. Then you have flight from the city core and persistantly high unemployment. Then you have most of the young folks leaving. In short, it's a dump in the city core, and getting worse as time goes on.

And this was all in 2000 - when the economy was actually booming in most of the world. Now? It has a very large prison for a city of it's size (due to the transients and the large city draw of rural areas). The city takes in convicts but they don't go back to where they came from. The tax base is rotting out slowly as folks move out and folks from even smaller areas move in to keep the decline less that it would be. My grandfather who still lives there says it's the worst he's seen and he was around during the depression. He says it's still better than the small farm he left when he was younger in Saskatchewan, but not by much. He says he's glad he's not working and has encouraged all of our family to move and leave to find work. The only industry that's really doing anything are the gangs, and the drugs there. Drugs are really taking their toll on the community as a whole.

Why did I live in that one house? At the time I didn't have a vehicle and I needed to be close to work and on the bus lines. The first neighbourhood wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as some of the other ones. I later moved closer to the core for my boss who wanted me close to where I worked, and not out of the city (30 minutes away), as he and my family live. We, eventually, made other arrangements, after I was able to buy a car. But that takes time, when you're flat broke and trying to pay off your loans for school. That year I stayed there in the city core, until I eventually moved out (when I could afford to relocate), but by then my father had died and I had to make other arrangements with my family.

So, that's why I left there for Texas. East Side of Vancouver is just plain sad. Why I lived there? It was cheap and Vancouver as a whole is expensive. When you live in cheap areas, you tend to get pushed up right against the crack houses and the drug trade. I wanted to get an education so that I had a way out of that life, and for the most part, have succeeded.

Now I live in a cheap (former crack shack!) with a landlady who's rehabbing... Life tends to repeat itself. I'm doing better though and life really has been much better here than I've had it up in Canada. I have a decent job that pays well, I have a car and no debts. Now I have to work on getting my **** together on getting a promotion and moving up to my own apartment and house, things I can't do until I get my green card here.

Once that falls through I can move to the next steps. But I have to wait, and that's the hard portion of it. I've already beaten the odds and I am playing with house money, but I'd really like to turn the corner here. I'm getting there!

[Ben Kenobi]

i would say it's unbelievable, but it's ben after all

Hey, maybe I should post in sign. Can you tell me what sign I'm making?

[C0ckney]

Hey, maybe I should post in sign. Can you tell me what sign I'm making?

yes you should post in sign, then i can lie about what it says and claim i won the argument. we'll have come full circle.

[Ben Kenobi]

then i can lie about what it says

If you're going to lie, we can dispense with the Portuguese. You can lie just as well in English, or are you simply exceptionally skilled in lying with another language?

[Ben Kenobi]

C0ckney lives in Brazil, so he used a Brazilian article to address the argument at the time, which was no longer Detroit specific...

Thread specifically says, Detroit. I challenged him to provide a citation, and that's the best he could do. And sadly, his own source doesn't agree with him, so he tried to conceal that with selective citation and the Portuguese. There's a very usable (and much more readable), article written by the same guy, which I quickly found when googling. Of course, it makes the argument untenable, so I can see why he didn't cite it.

[Ben Kenobi]

You are the most intellectually dishonest person I have ever come across in my entire life.

Oddly enough, leftists brand those whom they disagree with as 'dishonest', as if the only 'honest' intellectual agrees with them. Hence, disagreement is equated with lies. What's your degree in Moby?

You were the guy in Africa signing at that Mandela thing the other week, weren't you...?

No, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[C0ckney]

C0ckney lives in Brazil, so he used a Brazilian article to address the argument at the time, which was no longer Detroit specific...

i even specifically said that i was talking about brasil in post 22. the example that ben chose to respond to was from brasil. but of course we know that ben can't read.

his pure dishonesty and doubling down have been particularly amusing in this thread, but i'm finished with him now.