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  • Detroit police chief: Legal gun owners can deter crime

    Detroit— If more citizens were armed, criminals would think twice about attacking them, Detroit Police Chief James Craig said Thursday.

    Urban police chiefs are typically in favor of gun control or reluctant to discuss the issue, but Craig on Thursday was candid about how he’s changed his mind.

    “When we look at the good community members who have concealed weapons permits, the likelihood they’ll shoot is based on a lack of confidence in this Police Department,” Craig said at a press conference at police headquarters, adding that he thinks more Detroit citizens feel safer, thanks in part to a 7 percent drop in violent crime in 2013.

    Craig said he started believing that legal gun owners can deter crime when he became police chief in Portland, Maine, in 2009.

    “Coming from California (Craig was on the Los Angeles police force for 28 years), where it takes an act of Congress to get a concealed weapon permit, I got to Maine, where they give out lots of CCWs (carrying concealed weapon permits), and I had a stack of CCW permits I was denying; that was my orientation.

    “I changed my orientation real quick. Maine is one of the safest places in America. Clearly, suspects knew that good Americans were armed.”

    Craig’s statements Thursday echoed those he made Dec. 19 on “The Paul W. Smith Show” on WJR (760 AM), when he said: “There’s a number of CPL (concealed pistol license) holders running around the city of Detroit. I think it acts as a deterrent. Good Americans with CPLs translates into crime reduction. I learned that real quick in the state of Maine.”

    Robyn Thomas, director of the the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence in San Francisco, disagreed.

    “I think at its core, his position is an emotional one, based on the idea that people feel safer when they have guns. But studies have shown more guns don’t deter crime,” Thomas said. “There’s no research that shows guns make anyone safer, and it does show that, the more guns in any situation, the higher the likelihood of them harming either the owner, or people who have access to them.”

    Rick Ector of the Firearm Academy of Detroit, which teaches gun safety classes, said Craig’s comments are unusual for a police official.

    “It’s a huge, radical departure for the police chief to say good people should have access to firearms,” said Ector. “I’m not ready to say he’s pro-gun just yet, but it’s vastly different from what police chiefs have said in the past.”

    Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police director Robert Stevenson agreed.

    “A lot of police officers have no problem at all with law-abiding citizens having guns,” Stevenson said.

    “I think it’s probably like the citizenry: Some are for it, some are against it. But most police chiefs don’t want to talk about the subject.

    “It’s a divisive issue, and a lot of times chiefs are reluctant to get in the middle of those debates. Gun control, the death penalty — most chiefs try to stay out of those discussions. Craig speaks his mind; you’ve got to give him credit for that.”

    According to a March 2013 anonymous poll of 15,000 officers by the law enforcement website policeone.com., almost 90 percent of the respondents believed casualties would be decreased if armed citizens were present during shooting incidents, while more than 80 percent supported arming teachers who were trained with firearms.

    Although Craig said more responsible gun owners would likely lower crime, in the past he also has called for a ban on assault weapons, regulating high-capacity magazines, tighter restrictions on Internet ammunition sales and more stringent background checks for merchants who sell firearms at gun shows.

    Detroit police have reported 73 justifiable homicides in the city since 2011. The number in 2013 was 15, down from 25 the previous year.

    Most of those cases involved citizens who defended themselves by killing criminals. Among them: 77-year-old Willie White, who in March 2012, fatally shot a man who’d broken into his northwest Detroit home.

    Prior to the incident, White’s home had been broken into several times. The break-ins stopped after he killed the 18-year-old intruder, he said.

    “I think these criminals would definitely think twice if they knew more citizens were armed,” White said. “I know it stopped them from breaking into my place.”
    From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2pdAupupD

    FTR: There does appear to be some academic research to back the man up: An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates
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  • #2
    Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
    On the other hand, gun ownership significantly increases the risk of suicide in the home, such that the rate of violent death is higher, even if there is a deterrent on crime.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
      On the other hand, gun ownership significantly increases the risk of suicide in the home, such that the rate of violent death is higher, even if there is a deterrent on crime.
      I'm trying to concoct a joke involving people with guns offing themselves after an accidental discharge kills their children but i'm just not finding it...
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      • #4
        That's a good way to remove suicide-prone people from the gene pool, isn't it, doc?
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
          On the other hand, gun ownership significantly increases the risk of suicide in the home, such that the rate of violent death is higher, even if there is a deterrent on crime.
          From a policy perspective this is irrelevant.

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          • #6
            From a policy perspective we should only value the lives of people as long as they're not killing themselves?

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            • #7
              I think you'll find that the states with the most restrictive gun laws are the states which had the higher murder rates to begin with. A guy who moves from Los Angeles to Maine should realise that the more stable rural setting of Maine is, yes, going to have less crime than LA and the gun carrying policy isn't likely to explain the difference. Detroit actually has a much higher murder rate than LA. It has a horrendous unemployment problem. Tons of money for jobs programs is being shoveled in. Also people are leaving in droves.
              "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
                On the other hand, gun ownership significantly increases the risk of suicide in the home, such that the rate of violent death is higher, even if there is a deterrent on crime.
                Increasing personal choice
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dr Strangelove View Post
                  I think you'll find that the states with the most restrictive gun laws are the states which had the higher murder rates to begin with. A guy who moves from Los Angeles to Maine should realise that the more stable rural setting of Maine is, yes, going to have less crime than LA and the gun carrying policy isn't likely to explain the difference. Detroit actually has a much higher murder rate than LA. It has a horrendous unemployment problem. Tons of money for jobs programs is being shoveled in. Also people are leaving in droves.
                  Exclusive: After Westgate, Interpol Chief Ponders 'Armed Citizenry'
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by regexcellent View Post
                    From a policy perspective this is irrelevant.

                    It increases the chances of dying by gun shot, that would include homocides.

                    The doc is not very good with these stats.
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                    • #11
                      And since when is a signifcant cause of death of taxpayers by their own hand or other not relevant from a policy perspective?

                      You mean an NRA approved perspective?
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                      • #12
                        Saying you shouldn't own guns because you might kill yourself with it is just so goddamn stupid I don't know where to start. We're not all on ****ing suicide watch. Do you want to take away our belts and shoelaces too? You can kill yourself with a booze and tylenol cocktail pretty easily. Or by starting a charcoal grill in your bedroom, or running your car in the garage. Besides which, it's not generally the government's prerogative to protect you from yourself in that manner.

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                        • #13
                          Absolutely correct.
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                          • #14
                            Again, the primary method of suicide preventation is gun control? That seems like staggeringly bad policy.
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                            • #15
                              I predict that two people commit suicide for every criminal stopped. That's the stats, folks, no matter what the gun nuts claim.

                              I can understand why a law enforcement officer would try to off load his responsibilities though especially when the city declares bankruptcy and slashes budgets.
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