Now you see, this is homophobic, and it makes Christianity look bad, and I feel ashamed by association.

[kentonio]

What happens is this. Atheists see Christians helping other people. They get pissy at this, so they try to get involved and shat all over it. Then they get pissy when they get told that their help is neither wanted nor desired.

So atheists only volunteer to help in soup kitchens so they can 'shat all over it'? Are you actually ****ing insane?

Hey, here's a clue - atheist. It isn't all about you. It's supposed to be about the folks in the mission.

You want to help with a Christian mission - become Christian.

It's actually supposed to be about getting food into the stomachs of the homeless people starving and freezing on the streets, but I can understand why that wouldn't actually matter much to you. I assume you'd also turn away any homeless people who were atheists too.

So you admit then that there are no prolifers working as volunteers for PP. I rest my case.

Was your 'case' that you are a bizarre mix of stupid, dishonest and insane? Because in that case you certainly did make a very compelling case.

So because pro-life people don't generally volunteer for an organization that they disagree with morally, that must mean the organization is discriminating against them?

[kentonio]

I'm getting a bit concerned about Ben recently, he seems to have become much more openly vicious about atheists and 'liberals' than he ever was before. I can't decide if he was just hiding it previously, or if he's actually radicalizing.

[giblets]

Ben suffers from delusions and they have only gotten worse over time.

[Sava]

I'm getting a bit concerned about Ben recently, he seems to have become much more openly vicious about atheists and 'liberals' than he ever was before. I can't decide if he was just hiding it previously, or if he's actually radicalizing.

It's my personal opinion that BK is a threat to harm either himself or others. He should be committed.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I dont know that Paul was killing Christians because of faith (in whom?). He was a roman citizen killing Christians on behalf of the Jewish state. So what wonders has the seed of keeping women quiet in church produced?

So you've decided to create your own history of Paul where you end up blaming the state apparatus (of the Jews, no less - a vassal at best of the Roman Empire) for his persecution of Christians? Why am I not surprised?

The man does refer to himself as a Pharisee (Phil 3:5), but obviously he was just working for the state. This is why friends don't let friends listen to libertarians.

[molly bloom]

what was Paul's religion before Christianity? He wasn't a religious fanatic, he became one

He was known as a 'Pharisee of Pharisees' apparently. Reminds me of those ex-Trotskyites who became rabid Thatcherites in the early-mid 80s. Oh that numbskull who used to post here- was a Communist (or said he was) then became a born again nutjob. From one sect with a Jewish originator to another...

Also- the other apostles/disciples/evangelists of the Yeshua doctrine appraently hard a harder time than Paul in believing that the laws prohibiting the eating of non-kosher foods could be dropped. I believe Geza Vermes's book on the early centuries of Christianity is one good place to look for details of this.

[molly bloom]

If liberals wish to improve the working conditions of delivery drivers - tip more.

Nonsense. This merely increases the amount of money you can potentially take home. It does nothing to address the conditions of the workplace or the employers' attitude to those conditions or the rates of pay. Really, are you this dim ?

Liberals are quite generous when forcing other people to do things.

Unsubstantiated opinion given as fact.

Massive yawn.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I believe Geza Vermes's book on the early centuries of Christianity is one good place to look for details of this.

"Christian Beginnings"?

Seems interesting - will throw it on the Amazon wishlist (along with Everett Ferguson, Diarmaid McCulloch also has some interesting words on early Christianity in his massive work)

[The Mad Monk]

My Lord doesn't give people more than they can handle and thinks in the long run. Which is why He didn't stir the Spirit against slavery until humanity was ready to receive it, but did plant the seeds (Paul's admonition for masters to treat slaves fairly was radically progressive in those days).

My Lord is not one who goes too fast, causing things to fail and crumble rather than build slowly with firm foundation.

And furthermore, my Lord is not merely MY savior, but Savior of the World and all of Creation.



Because killing people in the name of faith is... moderate?

[molly bloom]

"Christian Beginnings"?

Seems interesting - will throw it on the Amazon wishlist (along with Everett Ferguson, Diarmaid McCulloch also has some interesting words on early Christianity in his massive work)

That's the one. Eminently readable and enjoyable.

[Ben Kenobi]

So atheists only volunteer to help in soup kitchens so they can 'shat all over it'? Are you actually ****ing insane?

What if the Christian mission included prayer for everyone, and listening to the Gospel? See, what atheists would do is try to remove these things. Just like they try to remove all forms of public worship. This is what I meant. The same folks demanding the removal of the ten commandments are the same folks volunteering for Christian specific missions in order to remove the 'Christian parts' of it.

The YMCA is a classic example of what happens when a Christian organization becomes overtaken by atheists. Salt losing it's saltiness.

It's actually supposed to be about getting food into the stomachs of the homeless people starving and freezing on the streets

So start your own mission then.

I assume you'd also turn away any homeless people who were atheists too.

There's a difference between Christian mission leadership and Christian mission recipients. Christians should be exceptionally picky about whom they have leading the mission, but should be open to all who wish to recieve Christian Charity.

Was your 'case' that you are a bizarre mix of stupid, dishonest and insane? Because in that case you certainly did make a very compelling case.

He's assuming that no one currently works there. Which is evidence enough that PP does bar them from holding positions. Surely there would be one or two here if they did not, but there isn't. I can quote some of the directors of PP and they explicitly say this is a fact.

So because pro-life people don't generally volunteer for an organization that they disagree with morally, that must mean the organization is discriminating against them?

The fact that the organization explicitly bars prolifers from working with them in any capacity.

[Ben Kenobi]

Nonsense. This merely increases the amount of money you can potentially take home.

Which is how you improve the standard of living, is it not?

It does nothing to address the conditions of the workplace or the employers' attitude to those conditions or the rates of pay. Really, are you this dim ?

It does everything to improve the standard of living of the worker.

Unsubstantiated opinion given as fact.

Proof direct in your post. You find the argument that 'you should tip more to improve the tipees standard of living as 'offensive' because it requires a personal contribution.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's my personal opinion that BK is a threat to harm either himself or others. He should be committed.

Wow. Excellent diagnosis, Dr. Sava. What's next, telling Britney Spears that she might want to lay off crack?

[MikeH]

^ is that post sarcastically saying to Sava that it's obvious what he says is true?!

[kentonio]

What if the Christian mission included prayer for everyone, and listening to the Gospel? See, what atheists would do is try to remove these things. Just like they try to remove all forms of public worship. This is what I meant. The same folks demanding the removal of the ten commandments are the same folks volunteering for Christian specific missions in order to remove the 'Christian parts' of it.

Since when did soup kitchens try and force the homeless to sit and listen to gospel readings and join in prayers? Most of the homeless services I've seen were far too busy trying to feed and help people to try preaching to them.

So start your own mission then.

There are plenty of non-religious soup kitchens around, but the idea that you should have to double up the provision of the same service just so that Christians don't have to hand out soup alongside an atheist is pretty ****ing ridiculous. It's also about the least Christian attitude possible, which is probably why you believe it.

He's assuming that no one currently works there. Which is evidence enough that PP does bar them from holding positions. Surely there would be one or two here if they did not, but there isn't. I can quote some of the directors of PP and they explicitly say this is a fact.

The fact that the organization explicitly bars prolifers from working with them in any capacity.

If you have quotes then provide quotes, it's not like anywhere here is going to trust your word on anything. Please also provide links to those quotes.