Republicans have once again demonstrated that they are the party...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Post 45 lays out the reason health care spending is so high in the US and what could be done about it quite well IMO. Medicare isn't anywhere near the entire reason for it.

Friedman's conclusions:

A more radical reform would, first, end both Medicare and Medicaid, at least for new entrants, and replace them by providing every family in the United States with catastrophic insurance (i.e., a major medical policy with a high deductible). Second, it would end tax exemption of employer-provided medical care. And, third, it would remove the restrictive regulations that are now imposed on medical insurance—hard to justify with universal catastrophic insurance.

In an ideal world this would work. But even de-linking the tax exemption for employer provided medical care would be a Herculean effort (and those savings would be, I assume what could be sued for providing every family with catastrophic insurance - though even that may be seen as "socialism" by some of the tea party right). Though I would add to that some good subsidies for the poor in paying for the deductible.

Friedman also talks about how single payer is better than our mixed system because the government monopoly can hold prices down by rationing. That may be a more feasible way to remove employer provided health care - though the true costs would be hidden through taxation rather than employers paying most of the premiums, so the basic problem would still be there.

[PLATO]

The sheer size of Italy's economy is only a bit behind the UK, but it's also been a massively corrupt and irresponsible ****hole for at least my lifetime. As for Spain, it's at the bottom end of the big Euro economies, and relies on tourism to the tune of 11% of GDP leaving it hugely vulnerable to things like huge global economic collapses.

Yeah Italy is a ****hole and Spain is an anomaly. Right. Gotcha.

Aww bless, you took the figures averaged across the whole EU.

I wonder what happens when we look at the top 10 economies in Europe?

Global GDP position/Unemployment

Germany: 4th/5.3%
France: 5th/11%
UK: 6th/7.7%
Italy: 9th/12%
Spain: 13th/27.2%
Netherlands: 18th/7%
Switzerland: 20th/3.1%
Sweden: 22nd/7.3%
Norway: 23rd/3.9%
Poland: 24th/10.6%

I see 50% with 7% unemployment or worse with 40% in double digits. What do you see? I see the second largest economy in Europe with 11% unemployment. What do you see? I see the area that all the Europeans loving to compare economically with the U.S. at 12.7% What do you see? I see an exhibition of a declining economic area. What do you see?

Can I borrow those rose colored glasses. I need them to see my own country like the Democrats do.

The complete reversal of reality there is absolutely stunning. I literally have no idea how you can have watched the last few weeks and come away believing that. This is some real Alice in Wonderland ****.

The complete and total lack of understanding as to what is actually going on here is absolutely stunning. I literally have no idea how you can have watched the last few weeks and come away believing that. This is some real fantasyland ****. Maybe I should just believe what the media is saying and not look at the root of the underlying debate. Would that make me European?

[Sava]

Friedman has always been decent at pointing out obvious causes... but then comes up with these convoluted schemes. If he divorced himself from ideology for a bit, he might be able to come up with the most effective solution, not just the one that makes him comfortable.

[PLATO]

Dear god man, you did not add $11 trillion from entitlement spending, you spent it on two unfunded wars and a global economic collapse!

Hardly...

FY2003 Supplemental: Operation Iraqi Freedom: Passed April 2003; Total $78.5 billion, $54.4 billion Iraq War
FY2004 Supplemental: Iraq and Afghanistan Ongoing Operations/Reconstruction: Passed November 2003; Total $87.5 billion, $70.6 billion Iraq War
FY2004 DoD Budget Amendment: $25 billion Emergency Reserve Fund (Iraq Freedom Fund): Passed July 2004, Total $25 billion, $21.5 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2005 Emergency Supplemental: Operations in the War on Terror; Activities in Afghanistan; Tsunami Relief: Passed April 2005, Total $82 billion, $58 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2006 Department of Defense appropriations: Total $50 billion, $40 billion (estimated) Iraq War.
FY2006 Emergency Supplemental: Operations Global War on Terror; Activities in Iraq & Afghanistan: Passed February 2006, Total $72.4 billion, $60 billion (estimated) Iraq War
FY2007 Department of Defense appropriations: $70 billion(estimated) for Iraq War-related costs[4][5]
FY2007 Emergency Supplemental (proposed) $100 billion
FY2008 Bush administration has proposed around $190 billion for the Iraq War and Afghanistan[6]
FY2009 Obama administration has proposed around $130 billion in additional funding for the Iraq War and Afghanistan.[7]
FY2010 Obama administration proposes around $159.3 billion for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.[8]


Now...it is true that the economic crisis did depress revenue and did increase outlays, but nowhere near the tune of $11trillion dollars

2013 United States federal budget – $3.8 trillion (submitted 2012 by President Obama)
2012 United States federal budget – $3.7 trillion (submitted 2011 by President Obama)
2011 United States federal budget – $3.8 trillion (submitted 2010 by President Obama)
2010 United States federal budget – $3.6 trillion (submitted 2009 by President Obama)
2009 United States federal budget – $3.1 trillion (submitted 2008 by President Bush)
2008 United States federal budget – $2.9 trillion (submitted 2007 by President Bush)
2007 United States federal budget – $2.8 trillion (submitted 2006 by President Bush)
2006 United States federal budget – $2.7 trillion (submitted 2005 by President Bush)
2005 United States federal budget – $2.4 trillion (submitted 2004 by President Bush)
2004 United States federal budget – $2.3 trillion (submitted 2003 by President Bush)
2003 United States federal budget – $2.2 trillion (submitted 2002 by President Bush)
2002 United States federal budget – $2.0 trillion (submitted 2001 by President Bush)


But thanks for trying to share the Kool-Aid.

[PLATO]

don't forget tax cuts... lots of tax cuts

indeed.

[MikeH]

WE ARE DRUNK ON WARM STICKY DARK ALE NOT ****ING KOOL AID!


That is arguably more offensive than DFG's ranting.

ARGH Time to go home and drink a beer.

[PLATO]

WE ARE DRUNK ON WARM STICKY DARK ALE NOT ****ING KOOL AID!


That is arguably more offensive than DFG's ranting.

ARGH Time to go home and drink a beer.

Sorry Master!

[MikeH]

Ha, and you said we had no influence any more.

[PLATO]

Ha, and you said we had no influence any more.

Owning a gun is useless...unless you shoot it. DFG shows that your aim is true.

[kentonio]

Yeah Italy is a ****hole and Spain is an anomaly. Right. Gotcha.

No really, Italy is a horribly corrupt ****hole and has been for as long as pretty much anyone can remember. Italian politics is incredibly famous for being utterly corrupt and ****ed up. Spain is also politically a bit of a ****hole but I'm kinder to them because they were a fascist dictatorship until 1975, so it's bound to take them some time to get sorted out again.

I see 50% with 7% unemployment or worse with 40% in double digits. What do you see? I see the second largest economy in Europe with 11% unemployment. What do you see? I see the area that all the Europeans loving to compare economically with the U.S. at 12.7% What do you see? I see an exhibition of a declining economic area. What do you see?

I see a collection of very different countries, some with vibrant economies and very low unemployment, and others with stagnant economies and high unemployment. When you talk about Europe as failing, you look like an idiot to the Germans and British, a wise man to the Greeks and the Spanish, and a **** to the French (because that's just how the French are. )

The total economic output of the EU is only generally raised to remind Americans that when they dismissively write off Europe as 'irrelevant' they are actually talking about an area as economically significant as the US. Trying to draw more precise lessons from it is basically pointless because it's a loose group of countries and those countries vary wildly.

The complete and total lack of understanding as to what is actually going on here is absolutely stunning. I literally have no idea how you can have watched the last few weeks and come away believing that. This is some real fantasyland ****. Maybe I should just believe what the media is saying and not look at the root of the underlying debate. Would that make me European?

When the media around the entire world are sending the same message, that generally means that actually IS the message, not just that everyone else other than you and your party are wrong.

[PLATO]

The media loves the grand stand. They rarely deal with the nuts and bolts of what is behind the politics. They like winners and losers. The simple fact is that everyone lost in this debacle. Nice TV for the Dems, but nothing whatsoever was accomplished to solve the underlying problems that caused it all. The Democrats had a real opportunity here to begin to address the future. They squandered it on political gamesmanship...and good TV.

[Sava]

But thanks for trying to share the Kool-Aid.

You've only listed direct costs.

Read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War

$6 trillion just for veteran care alone.

So yeah.

[PLATO]

I see a collection of very different countries, some with vibrant economies and very low unemployment, and others with stagnant economies and high unemployment. When you talk about Europe as failing, you look like an idiot to the Germans and British, a wise man to the Greeks and the Spanish, and a **** to the French (because that's just how the French are. )

Love it. Britain was brilliant not to go balls deep with Europe and Germany was brilliant to go balls deep. The British kept themselves from being dragged down and the Germans finally found a way to conquer everyone else. I absolutely love the comment on the French.

[Sava]

The media loves the grand stand. They rarely deal with the nuts and bolts of what is behind the politics. They like winners and losers. The simple fact is that everyone lost in this debacle. Nice TV for the Dems, but nothing whatsoever was accomplished to solve the underlying problems that caused it all. The Democrats had a real opportunity here to begin to address the future. They squandered it on political gamesmanship...and good TV.

Yes. Everyone lost. But not everyone is to blame.

[DaShi]

Please stop trying to save the republican party, Sava.