Republicans have once again demonstrated that they are the party...

[PLATO]

conservatives have taken it way to fair.

Nice slip.

[kentonio]

I can't believe the rate they've managed to increase the deficit.

And you could vote for another party

I couldn't vote for Ed Milliband in a million years, the man looks like a school prefect. As for Nick Clegg.. really?

[kentonio]

Nice slip.

When our conservatives are going too far, you can safely assume yours are way, way up the barking tree.

[PLATO]

Yet you keep pointing at Europe as some giant failure despite our debt levels being lower than yours, and that after we've been running these systems for many decades.

Europe is a failure. More and more people are becoming government reliant every year. The associated borrowing has already begin to show its ugly head in several countries. It is only a matter of time before deficeit spending has to stop

I wish. I was dumb enough once to believe the austerity arguments, but it's hard to see it as anything other than failure now. Although to be fair we certainly did have some room for fat trimming after the Labour excesses, but as usual the conservatives have taken it way to fair. For the first time ever I'm actually considering abstaining at the next general election, and I absolutely hate that. I just don't think I can bring myself to vote for a party this out of touch.

I am not arguing for austerity...I am arguing for a plan to sustainability.

[PLATO]

When our conservatives are going too far, you can safely assume yours are way, way up the barking tree.

Intransigence breeds extremism. Your left has to be more flexible due to your governmental system. Our right has to be more extremist to be heard. If 5 senators decided to quit supporting Obama, there is still zero chance of a no-confidence vote and new elections. There is more incentive to coalition building in a parliamentary system.

[PLATO]

Already used my Thanks on the announcement of DFG's banning.

It is the simple truth of the matter, isn't it?

[MikeH]

I couldn't vote for Ed Milliband in a million years, the man looks like a school prefect. As for Nick Clegg.. really?

*sigh* depressing isn't it.

I quite like Ed Miliband, at least in part because I'm hoping his willingness to stand up to Murdoch and the Daily Mail might end up with us being able to have a better national political debate.

If he loses will anyone dare challenge them again?

[Sava]

Outcomes between the US and the UK are fairly comparable, actually. Of course, we do pay ****tons more to reach those outcomes, and other countries with "socialized health care" have significantly better outcomes than both of us, and still at a fraction of the cost.

The problem isn't "Obamacare", necessarily. The problem is that health care is 20% of our economy for no ****ing good reason, and "Obamacare" does sweet ****-all to solve that problem.

/points to insurance companies

We have an entire industry that does nothing except make healthcare more expensive and less available.

MAYBE WE SHOULD BAN IT

[kentonio]

Europe is a failure. More and more people are becoming government reliant every year. The associated borrowing has already begin to show its ugly head in several countries. It is only a matter of time before deficeit spending has to stop

So you're back to parroting GOP talking points? If you want to make a statement as bold as 'Europe is a failure' then support that claim. Some vague talk about borrowing, when yours is much higher, makes it appear a pretty ridiculous claim.

I am not arguing for austerity...I am arguing for a plan to sustainability.

The GOP have just spent the last 3 years trying to slash and burn your social programs, what exactly do you think austerity is?

Intransigence breeds extremism. Your left has to be more flexible due to your governmental system. Our right has to be more extremist to be heard. If 5 senators decided to quit supporting Obama, there is still zero chance of a no-confidence vote and new elections. There is more incentive to coalition building in a parliamentary system.

Except there really isn't, because as we've just discovered a relatively small group of people can completely hijack your system of government because it wasn't designed to deal with people acting this unreasonably. The current problems are purely a result of a small minority attempting to have a voice that is much larger than their numbers grant them. If you really believe that every minority should be able to get their own way whenever they want, then how exactly is any system ever going to work?

The conservatives could have won concessions by acting reasonably, and they deliberately chose to trash the building to try and get an utterly unrealistic outcome. I honestly don't see how you can see this any other way.

[kentonio]

*sigh* depressing isn't it.

Yep.

I quite like Ed Miliband, at least in part because I'm hoping his willingness to stand up to Murdoch and the Daily Mail might end up with us being able to have a better national political debate.

I actually admire him for that, but then when I hear him speak I just can't stop smirking. It's childish I know, but if he has that effect on me then god knows how he could get the voters to take him seriously.

If he loses will anyone dare challenge them again?

I think Mudoch has taken enough hits recently for his air of invincibility to have well and truly cracked. As for the Daily Mail, attacking them is basically a national sport anyway until you're in UKIP or the Tories.

[PLATO]

So you're back to parroting GOP talking points? If you want to make a statement as bold as 'Europe is a failure' then support that claim. Some vague talk about borrowing, when yours is much higher, makes it appear a pretty ridiculous claim.

Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Spain.... It is the tip of the inevitable iceberg. You seem to think I am claiming that we are doing a better job. That is simply not reading what I am writing. We ARE doing a worse job than Europe right now. Just because we are doing worse on fiscal responsibility does not make what Europe is doing somehow miraculously right. As far as GOP talking points? I think for myself. Because I believe SOME (but certainly not all) of what they believe does not make me a parrot. That is just a simple way for you to run from the things I am actually saying.

The GOP have just spent the last 3 years trying to slash and burn your social programs, what exactly do you think austerity is?

I am not and have not been arguing to "slash" social spending. Reform? Yes. Austerity? NO. Once again, please read what I am saying!

Except there really isn't, because as we've just discovered a relatively small group of people can completely hijack your system of government because it wasn't designed to deal with people acting this unreasonably. The current problems are purely a result of a small minority attempting to have a voice that is much larger than their numbers grant them. If you really believe that every minority should be able to get their own way whenever they want, then how exactly is any system ever going to work?

The conservatives could have won concessions by acting reasonably, and they deliberately chose to trash the building to try and get an utterly unrealistic outcome. I honestly don't see how you can see this any other way.

I agree. The Republicans handled this badly. In the end, they did act like grownups and do what was right for the country. The same cannot be said for the Democrats.

[Dinner]

Not all of them are, just enough of them.

This. I counted 144 who were not grown ups who, even at the last minute, voted to default.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Probably, but at least they got a promise of negotiations. Let's see how those go. We will know the answer to this question on December 13.

Democrats are going to have to give on entitlement reform and Republicans are going to have to give on taxes.

Frankly, I have been a long time supporter of lower taxes. However, the income disparity in the country is as great as it has been since the Great Depression. The simple truth is that the rich are not reinvesting to create jobs. Because of this, I have become a supporter of increasing taxes on the rich...with the provisio that they get tax breaks for actually creating jobs.

The "No new taxes" of the Republicans has got to go...just as the "No Entitlement Reform" of the Democrats has got to go. These programs have got to be made sustainable.

Yeah, like this will ever happen .

Also, saying "Europe is a failure" is kind of ridiculous. Germany, for once contra-example, is doing quite alright.

[PLATO]

This. I counted 144 who were not grown ups who, even at the last minute, voted to default.

Occasionally (and I do mean occasionally), you do have a good point.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The same cannot be said for the Democrats.

You act as if the Senate deal was a gang of 12 Republicans . Like Senator Manchin didn't even exist.