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  • #76
    Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
    Yeah, like this will ever happen .

    Also, saying "Europe is a failure" is kind of ridiculous. Germany, for once contra-example, is doing quite alright.
    I agree that Germany has seemed to find a way to make it work. The question for them is "How long can they continue to bail out the rest of Europe?"

    Nonetheless...it is apparent that they do something right.

    Germany's 2013 federal budget, debated in parliament on Tuesday, is going to comply with the EU fiscal treaty - leaving the government proud, the opposition jealous, and one minister angry.

    German 1-Euro coins, lined up in a row, (c) Oliver Berg dpa/lnw


    When it comes to saving taxpayers' money, Chancellor Angela Merkel began by setting a good example herself: For 2013, the budget of her office is to decrease by 10 million euros ($12.8 million), compared to this year. And that is despite the fact that the chancellor's office is also to directly oversee the cultural affairs fund, which, amid everyone's applause, was bumped up by 100 million euros.

    "See, this is how it's done," chimed the chancellor, together with her governing coalition of conservative CDU/CSU parties and the liberal FDP, referring to their "consolidation budget" which will allow Germany to already meet the requirements of the European fiscal pact by 2013.

    "New structural debt" will then stand at 0.34 percent, which would be exactly 0.01 percent below the mutually agreed-on limit. This means that taking on new debt has decreased for the fifth year in a row.

    Economic risks and extra expenditures, such as paying 8.7 billion euros ($11.1 billion) into the European financial rescue fund known as the European Stability Mechanism (ESM) are not included, but then, this is not required by the so-called 'debt brake' enshrined in the German constitution.

    Still, there are risks: for example, although the government was strongly against it, a partial debt write-off for Greece could burden German taxpayers with up to 20 billion euros in additonal costs.

    Chancellor Merkel and Finance Minsiter Schäuble during the 2013 budget debate (c)Wolfgang Kumm/dpa In discussion: Chancellor Merkel and Finance Minister Schäuble during the 2013 budget debate

    "A balanced budget within view"

    But if all goes well, the federal budget deficit for 2013 is estimated to be around 17.1 billion euros, with overall spending of 302 billion euros. "One could say that a balanced budget is within sight, and consequently, we keep working at it," said CDU budget expert Norbert Barthle.

    It was not without a tinge of jealousy that the opposition Social Democrats, Greens and Left party conceded that "the government [was] riding the economic wave." That's how the SPD budget expert Carsten Schneider phrased it, while, at the same time, accusing the government of helping itself to the social welfare funds to patch up the holes in the budget.

    Although the allocations for the Ministries of Labor and Social Services of 120 billion euros still represent the biggest chunk of the overall 302-billion-euro budget, the funds are nevertheless 7 billion euros below the level of 2012.

    A good performing German economy has allowed the government to cut back on its contributions to unemployment funds, retirement pensions and health insurance. "Precaution is a foreign word for the government," complained members of the Left Party, as it was already clear that any slow down in the economy would result in a financial shortfall for social services.

    Interest burden only third highest expenditure



    With regard to the second largest budget expenditure - servicing the federal deficit - the Merkel government has benefited from the low interest rates that Germany has to pay for loans on the international finance markets. As a result, the 2013 interest burden is going to be in the range of 33 billion euros, or more than 2.5 billion euros less than this year, pushing interest payments for the first time in years to third place on the list of budget expenditures.

    The new second position belongs to the defense budget with more than 33 billion euros. The biggest reason for this is the revamping of the German armed forces, transforming them from a defensive structure into one that is tailored for active interventions, making it smaller, more sophisticated - and more expensive. A new weapons system, like the Eurofighter jet, costs one billion euros. Initially it was thought that the restructuring process would help save money.

    A nearly billion-euro increase in the budget for education and scientific research has pleased both the governing parties and the opposition, while - in the face of rising electricity costs - criticism was voiced over tax cuts for large scale industrial consumers, allegedly an intervention by the government to retain the competitiveness of these businesses on the international market.

    Trimmed development budget

    One of the government branches that, in 2013, has to do with less money is, surprisingly, the Ministry of Development and International Cooperation. In a last-minute move, the federal budget committee sanctioned a cut of 140 million euros in funding earmarked for the European Development Fund but not tapped over the past couple of years.

    Visibly angered, Development Minister Dirk Niebel noted that this meant the government had abandoned its own goal of increasing development spending to 0.7 percent of GDP.
    Germany's 2013 federal budget, debated in parliament on Tuesday, is going to comply with the EU fiscal treaty - leaving the government proud, the opposition jealous, and one minister angry.


    Of course...they have a plan. Something the Republicans are begging for here.
    "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
      Already used my Thanks on the announcement of DFG's banning.
      Wait, did he really get banned? Was it for the melt down he had in the other thread?
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

      Comment


      • #78
        apparently
        To us, it is the BEAST.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Dinner View Post
          Wait, did he really get banned? Was it for the melt down he had in the other thread?
          that's what MikeH said. 6 months in the gulag. I could not believe my eyes as I read what he wrote. Sad to see anyone with those feelings. I hope he can find a way to deal with all that anger.
          "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by PLATO View Post
            Cyprus, Greece, Italy, Spain.... It is the tip of the inevitable iceberg.
            Dude seriously!

            You've just named an irrelevant little island and three of the most backwards countries in Europe. That's like me saying 'Oohh look at Mississippi, Alabama and Arkansas, that's what Washington, New York and California will be like in a few years. Those countries had very little to start with and borrowed big in the boom to finance programs they couldn't afford. The difference is that the likes of the UK and Germany can afford the programs we have, which is why we ran them just fine for decades.

            Originally posted by PLATO View Post
            You seem to think I am claiming that we are doing a better job. That is simply not reading what I am writing. We ARE doing a worse job than Europe right now. Just because we are doing worse on fiscal responsibility does not make what Europe is doing somehow miraculously right. As far as GOP talking points? I think for myself. Because I believe SOME (but certainly not all) of what they believe does not make me a parrot. That is just a simple way for you to run from the things I am actually saying.
            Have I ever run away from what you've said? You're usually reasonable about discussing things, but every now and again you make some wild claim like 'Europe is a failure' that is not only out of character for you but also a common right wing talking point. I'm curious about where else you got it, if it wasn't from there.

            Originally posted by PLATO View Post
            I am not and have not been arguing to "slash" social spending. Reform? Yes. Austerity? NO. Once again, please read what I am saying!
            Good.

            Originally posted by PLATO View Post
            I agree. The Republicans handled this badly. In the end, they did act like grownups and do what was right for the country. The same cannot be said for the Democrats.
            They caved when they realized they were losing terribly and couldn't last longer without losing a massive amount more. If that's acting like a grownup then I hate to see what happens when they start acting like children.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by PLATO View Post
              Occasionally (and I do mean occasionally), you do have a good point.
              While I thank you for your backhanded compliment I do find it amusing coming from a guy who's contributions to the thread so far have been an unending stream of misconceptions and fail.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by PLATO View Post
                I agree that Germany has seemed to find a way to make it work. The question for them is "How long can they continue to bail out the rest of Europe?"

                Nonetheless...it is apparent that they do something right.



                Germany's 2013 federal budget, debated in parliament on Tuesday, is going to comply with the EU fiscal treaty - leaving the government proud, the opposition jealous, and one minister angry.


                Of course...they have a plan. Something the Republicans are begging for here.
                They are doing this well AND they are bailing out Europe... super economy! Also, I guess that Germany doesn't totally mind bailing out countries (when its doing well, rather) when that leads to basically economically owning them for a while.
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #83
                  UK is 7th largest economy in the world. Italy is 8th...Spain is 13th. Italy has the 4th largest economy in Europe...Spain is 5th.

                  Hardly the Mississippi and Alabama's of Europe. Have some more Kool-Aid.

                  Of course...if you guys think European unemployment at 12.7% is "success", then what the hell can I say?

                  Yes...the Republican's caved. As they should have given the complete intransigence of the Democrats. In the end, they did what was right. The "my way or the highway" approach of the Democrats is what was utterly childish.
                  "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Both Germany and the UK have lower unemployment than the US and they've had that for a while now.

                    BTW you really are delusional in your misconceptions of both the Republican shut down/threat to default as well as about the EU in general. I think that's clear to everyone though.
                    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by PLATO View Post
                      Yes...the Republican's caved. As they should have given the complete intransigence of the Democrats. In the end, they did what was right. The "my way or the highway" approach of the Democrats is what was utterly childish.
                      Considering the Republicans wanted to re-legislate laws rather than focus on budgetary concerns (aside from the initial "lets try to defund Obamacare" strategy), I think the Dems did the proper thing and support their efforts here wholeheartedly. The screaming children that were the Tea Party caved and we got ourselves out of it through Senate Democrats and Republicans.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Dinner View Post
                        Both Germany and the UK have lower unemployment than the US and they've had that for a while now.


                        I think ours is higher than yours again now/or about the same. Wonderful result of government austerity cutbacks cutting back public sector jobs.
                        Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                        Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                        We've got both kinds

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by MikeH View Post
                          I think ours is higher than yours again now/or about the same. Wonderful result of government austerity cutbacks cutting back public sector jobs.
                          The US cooks the book when it comes to unemployment figures. It's hard to know for sure.
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Dinner View Post
                            While I thank you for your backhanded compliment I do find it amusing coming from a guy who's contributions to the thread so far have been an unending stream of misconceptions and fail.
                            Enjoy the kool-aid. Eventually the fiscal problems will have to be dealt with or we will all "fail". There are certain economic facts that simply cannot be avoided. The sooner we deal with them, the easier the solution. The Democratic reluctance to look at getting the fiscal house in order is the problem. I do agree that the Republicans handled things poorly, but their root concern over unbridled government spending could not be more relevant.

                            Do not assume that I agree with all that they are asking for. I don't. I simply believe that there has to be a starting point and that "kicking the can down the road" philosophy of the Democrats is just plain stupid.

                            Sorry for being backhanded about the compliment. Your point there was a very good one.
                            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Sava View Post
                              The US cooks the book when it comes to unemployment figures. It's hard to know for sure.
                              We do too, I have no idea who cooks them more.
                              Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                              Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                              We've got both kinds

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
                                He's correct, though...Seriously, do the math. Medicare is what percent of our federal budget, which is what percent of our economy?
                                If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                                ){ :|:& };:

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