The Gold Plated Ambulance

[Berzerker]

Ben invalidates personal liberty by injecting slavery. Classic sophism.

and enslaving the terminally ill to a life they want to exit

They are the same thing. Exactly the same thing.

doctor assisted suicide involves not only consent but a request to die, euthanasia doesn't. I've had to put pets down, they didn't give their consent or ask to die but vets typically advise sparing them the few days or weeks of agony.

as for pain management, docs are reluctant to cross paths with the DEA and can be prosecuted if the person dies with plenty of drugs in their system

how do you feel about no resuscitate requests?

[MRT144]

Ben would also deny people marijuana to ease pain but then complains when they don the suicide hood

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben would also deny people marijuana to ease pain but then complains when they don the suicide hood

Had to go see a friend in the hospital because of it. He was in rough shape. So yeah, I can see why they give dope to people that want to kill themselves.

[Ben Kenobi]

Every catholics faith is your business

I don't see how you can go and say, "I do Catholicism right, and you do it wrong", and then when confronted turn around and say - "my faith isn't your business!" One or the other rah. Either quit waving your Catholicism around or embrace it and own the position.

[Ben Kenobi]

and enslaving the terminally ill to a life they want to exit

Right, because euthanasia is only available to the terminally ill. Not the case. Arguing that we should do x for y and then saying x should be available to all makes no sense.

doctor assisted suicide involves not only consent but a request to die

When did Terri Schiavo issue consent? She did not have a will requesting to die.

I've had to put pets down

Pets!= People.

as for pain management, docs are reluctant to cross paths with the DEA and can be prosecuted if the person dies with plenty of drugs in their system

Palliative care works without killing the patient and can alleviate suffering for most. You're going to need some evidence for docs getting prosecuted for perscribing morphine to terminally ill patients.

how do you feel about no resuscitate requests?

I'm fine with them. I have one myself. If my time comes, my time comes. I don't want heroic measures and I'm an organ donor. If I end up in a car accident or something and they can't revive me - chop me up and use my parts for other folks.

[Berzerker]

We're not talking about euthanasia (you are) and Terry Schiavo had the plug pulled - and if that was her wish then that was a no resuscitate request, that wasn't assisted suicide. Euthanizing pets was an example of how its different from assisted suicide, you said they were the same. But is it "humane" to euthanize a pet that is suffering a painful death? I'm not running around the internet looking for examples of docs prosecuted by the feds, I know its happened and I know docs are reluctant to get in the way of the DEA because of the 2nd guessing.

[Ben Kenobi]

We're not talking about euthanasia (you are) and Terry Schiavo had the plug pulled - and if that was her wish then that was a no resuscitate request, that wasn't assisted suicide.

She was denied food and water. She was starved and dehydrated, which is a horrible way to go. She lasted 13 days before she finally died.

Euthanizing pets was an example of how its different from assisted suicide, you said they were the same.

I said no such thing.

But is it "humane" to euthanize a pet that is suffering a painful death?

Christ. Pets!= People.

I'm not running around the internet looking for examples of docs prosecuted by the feds

Considering that it's your argument, yeah, I guess you're conceding that it's just bull****.

, I know its happened and I know docs are reluctant to get in the way of the DEA because of the 2nd guessing.

Facts would be great.

[Elok]

Probably nobody cares, but Orthodoxy (at least in the U.S., dunno if this is international policy) draws a distinction between killing and allowing to die. Pulling the plug is totally legit; poison is not. There's actually an obscure prayer to ask God to let you die, though.

[Sava]

Probably nobody cares, but Orthodoxy (at least in the U.S., dunno if this is international policy) draws a distinction between killing and allowing to die. Pulling the plug is totally legit; poison is not. There's actually an obscure prayer to ask God to let you die, though.

At worst, an Orthodox priest would make you give confession. It's not like the priests are going to follow you around and judo-chop the needle out your hand if you assist suicide in that manner.

[Ben Kenobi]

Probably nobody cares, but Orthodoxy (at least in the U.S., dunno if this is international policy) draws a distinction between killing and allowing to die. Pulling the plug is totally legit; poison is not. There's actually an obscure prayer to ask God to let you die, though.

Euthanasia isn't 'allowing to die'. What's the position of Orthodoxy on withdrawal on food and water? I know that after the Schiavo fiasco der Panzerkardinel explained that this was verboten.

[Sava]

Nobody cares. Go away.

[N35t0r]

Euthanasia isn't 'allowing to die'. What's the position of Orthodoxy on withdrawal on food and water? I know that after the Schiavo fiasco der Panzerkardinel explained that this was verboten.

Did they lock Schiavo's room to avoid her from getting food and water?

[Ben Kenobi]

Did they lock Schiavo's room to avoid her from getting food and water?

They arrested folks who tried to bring her some.

[Berzerker]

She was denied food and water. She was starved and dehydrated, which is a horrible way to go. She lasted 13 days before she finally died.

They pulled the plug on her, she was kept alive by machines. And they did it that way because of opposition to euthanasia.

I said no such thing.

Yes you did, here:

They are the same thing. Exactly the same thing.

That was you claiming euthanasia and assisted suicide were the same, exactly the same.

Christ. Pets!= People.

Yes, I know Ben... You didn't answer the question.

Considering that it's your argument, yeah, I guess you're conceding that it's just bull****.

It aint BS, I just dont care enough to google examples

Euthanasia isn't 'allowing to die'.

If the Schiavo case was neither euthanasia or assisted suicide why are you bringing it up?

[Elok]

Schiavo was a vegetable, with no higher brain function. She had no chance, barring a miracle, of living a real life again. Allowing her to die, AFAIK, was totally fine, since it only involved cessation of the services artificially prolonging a life that was effectively over. I certainly don't recall anyone church-related condemning it.