Pope sends direct message to Ben

[Berzerker]

Adam's punishment is work. Eve's punishment is child birth. How is those powers that God doesn't want us to have?

Those weren't imposed punishments, they were just the realities faced by Adam and Eve and every other critter on the planet. Now, why would God tell Eve she will suffer pain in childbirth if this entire episode has nothing to do with having children? When God informs his friends (other gods) about what happened, and I imagine they were possibly amused by God's naivete, he doesn't mention anything about "punishment" or "sin" or dis-obedience. He says the humans have become like them so let us block their way to the tree of life lest they acquire another "power". They're liable to become an even greater nuisance (God's motive for the Flood and Tower of Babel) if they have "knowledge" and long lives.

This all goes back to the conflict between brothers Enlil (sky god) and Enki (serpent god), Enlil was not enthused by the proliferation of people and decided to keep knowledge of an impending flood from them. Enki told the Sumerian "Noah" to build a boat and provided a navigator - the monotheists combined the pagan gods into one but still needed a god to serve as antagonist to make sense of these stories that were already ancient to them.

It says he took them to a garden, which is then described as being "eastward". Of what? Israel? Better question, how would the author of Genesis know that the garden was in fact Eastward?

It doesn't say God took them to the Garden, God took a man he formed after the 6th Day. The woman was not made yet, Eve was formed in the Garden after God decided Adam should have a companion. After Adam searched among the already living animals for that companion and could not find one he liked, God removed his rib and made Eve.

And "eastward" of what? Eastward of the location where God made people. Was it Israel? Maybe, maybe not... The science says Ethiopia. No countries, no civilization, just people spreading out from our ancestral homeland westward of the Garden.

Why did God tell the 6th Day people to have kids and fill the Earth when Adam was taken to the Garden where he neither had a wife or kids nor filled the Earth? It was only after Adam and Eve were given the power to procreate by the Serpent that they were kicked out of the Garden where they could have children and fill the Earth.

[Imran Siddiqui]

He wants to be loved for Hus glory.

I mean, I love Jan Hus as much as the next Protestant, but I don't think the Almighty wants us to focus on Hus's glory THAT much .

[Nikolai]

I mean, I love Jan Hus as much as the next Protestant, but I don't think the Almighty wants us to focus on Hus's glory THAT much .

Bigot.

[Kidlicious]

Those weren't imposed punishments, they were just the realities faced by Adam and Eve and every other critter on the planet. Now, why would God tell Eve she will suffer pain in childbirth if this entire episode has nothing to do with having children? When God informs his friends (other gods) about what happened, and I imagine they were possibly amused by God's naivete, he doesn't mention anything about "punishment" or "sin" or dis-obedience. He says the humans have become like them so let us block their way to the tree of life lest they acquire another "power". They're liable to become an even greater nuisance (God's motive for the Flood and Tower of Babel) if they have "knowledge" and long lives.

This all goes back to the conflict between brothers Enlil (sky god) and Enki (serpent god), Enlil was not enthused by the proliferation of people and decided to keep knowledge of an impending flood from them. Enki told the Sumerian "Noah" to build a boat and provided a navigator - the monotheists combined the pagan gods into one but still needed a god to serve as antagonist to make sense of these stories that were already ancient to them.



It doesn't say God took them to the Garden, God took a man he formed after the 6th Day. The woman was not made yet, Eve was formed in the Garden after God decided Adam should have a companion. After Adam searched among the already living animals for that companion and could not find one he liked, God removed his rib and made Eve.

And "eastward" of what? Eastward of the location where God made people. Was it Israel? Maybe, maybe not... The science says Ethiopia. No countries, no civilization, just people spreading out from our ancestral homeland westward of the Garden.

Why did God tell the 6th Day people to have kids and fill the Earth when Adam was taken to the Garden where he neither had a wife or kids nor filled the Earth? It was only after Adam and Eve were given the power to procreate by the Serpent that they were kicked out of the Garden where they could have children and fill the Earth.

It's a story about how we need God. You're being obtuse by putting too much emphasis on words. Like I said, it's not a history text.

[Kidlicious]

Fixed that for you.

Since christian scholars debate the Bible all the time, I find it hard to believe that there is only one absolute truth.
And find it even harder to believe that our resident morons are the keepers of this non-existent absolute truth.

Actually, moron, Christianity was founded by the fathers. They chose the books for the Bible with an absolute truth in mind. You can now remove your foot from your mouth.

[Kidlicious]

You have basically two different creation stories in the 7 day and the Garden of Eden versions. As the discussion above shows, they don't actually make any sense when considered the same story. The only way they make any sense as a single version is if you make some really strange and wild leaps of faith.

Also as we've pointed out before, if you consider any of it to be literal then we're all descended from some pretty intense incest.

The problem with that is it's wrong. They do make sense, and are consistent.

[Berzerker]

God told the 6th Day people to have kids and fill the Earth... Was that a punishment? Or did women give birth without pain and men didn't have to work for food?

[Kidlicious]

God told the 6th Day people to have kids and fill the Earth... Was that a punishment? Or did women give birth without pain and men didn't have to work for food?

Adam and Eve were the first created. "Be fruitful and multiply" is similar to "Let there be light"
That is, when God said "be fruitful and multiply" that's what happened. He didn't literally tell them to do that. Again, this is all for the Glory of Jesus Christ. Adam was created for the glory of Him.

[rah]

Actually, moron, Christianity was founded by the fathers. They chose the books for the Bible with an absolute truth in mind. You can now remove your foot from your mouth.

So you're saying that they choose what to make up based on whatever they were thinking at the time to best serve their purpose. Are you serious? Hmm, and you believe what they made up and you're calling me the moron. Totally Laughable.

[Kidlicious]

So you're saying that they choose what to make up based on whatever they were thinking at the time to best serve their purpose. Are you serious? Hmm, and you believe what they made up and you're calling me the moron. Totally Laughable.

I called you a moron simply to point out the irony. Yes, the fathers believed that Jesus was the central figure in the universe. He IS the good. There is no good without Him. Everything has been created for His glory. THAT'S CHRISTIANITY! So, what you saying about these "Christians" who disagree with that?

[Ben Kenobi]

it says God took the man he formed to a Garden he planted in the east

Umm, it says that God took Adam to the Garden.

[Berzerker]

Adam and Eve were the first created. "Be fruitful and multiply" is similar to "Let there be light"
That is, when God said "be fruitful and multiply" that's what happened. He didn't literally tell them to do that. Again, this is all for the Glory of Jesus Christ. Adam was created for the glory of Him.

You said having to work for food and pain in childbirth were punishments, but thats what the 6th Day people were doing already. Adam and Eve weren't subject to that reality until they got kicked out of the Garden, Adam had to work hard for their food and Eve was about to find out what childbirth was like.

Umm, it says that God took Adam to the Garden.

7 And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature. 8 And Jehovah God planteth a garden in Eden, at the east, and He setteth there the man whom He hath formed

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed

In Gen 1:27 male and female are made together on the same day. How many of each is another matter, but Eve was not among them. She was made later in the Garden after a series of events that make God look rather silly. As for Adam, he was not formed on the 6th Day either and he was not told to venture forth and fill the world with any females.

[Kidlicious]

Gen 2:5. "... and there was not a man to till the ground."

Before creation of Adam. Adam was the first man.

[Berzerker]

you're confusing man with Adam, the latter is one person and Eve was made from his rib

the male and female of Gen 1:27 were made together and told to have kids and fill the Earth

Adam was told to till the Garden, he was not having kids and filling the Earth...It took the intervention of the Serpent before Adam and Eve conceived children and expulsion from the Garden before they were filling the Earth

[Kidlicious]

I'm not confusing man with Adam. It says there was no man. That means there was no man.