If abortion was to be made illegal ....

[Ben Kenobi]

Of course it's not acceptable. I can't believe you couldn't work that out for yourself.

Fair enough.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf

There you go Kentonio.

[Ben Kenobi]

In all fairness, there are many many things that he can't work out for himself.

Meh, if you don't ask you don't get.

[kentonio]

Fair enough.

http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf

There you go Kentonio.

Why would I have the slightest interest in looking at details of a case of a psycho who abused his position to carry out grotesque acts? Would you feel the need to look at child abuse photos to justify your believe that churches should exist?

[Ben Kenobi]

Why would I have the slightest interest in looking at details of a case of a psycho who abused his position to carry out grotesque acts?

You asked for evidence. I provided some.

Would you feel the need to look at child abuse photos to justify your believe that churches should exist?

Oh look, Kentonio uses "TROLL". It's not very effective.

[kentonio]

You asked for evidence. I provided some.

Your link doesn't work dip****. I don't know why I'm even vaguely surprised.

Oh look, Kentonio uses "TROLL". It's not very effective.

Why is it a 'TROLL' when it's about something you care about, but fair comment when it's something half the country cares about?

[Ben Kenobi]

Your link doesn't work dip****.

Works fine for me.

"http://www.phila.gov/districtattorney/pdfs/grandjurywomensmedical.pdf"

something half the country cares about?

Bla bla bla bla bla, church. bla bla bla bla bla child abuse.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Your link doesn't work dip****. I don't know why I'm even vaguely surprised.

Yes it does.

[kentonio]

Doesn't work for me, starts loading a pdf and then just hangs and finally crashes.

[PLATO]

What would the cost to society be if millions of unwanted children were let upon it?

What is the cost to society of not having millions of unwanted children let upon it?

What is the cost to the lives of women that are forced to have children they don't want?

What is the cost to women who choose not to have children they do not want?

Once we are smart enough to answer these questions in all their aspects, then we can begin to have a real debate on abortion. Until then, we must and should leave it to the conscience of the individual in a free society.

Now there are people who believe that they have the answers or justifications for a particular point of view, but then there are just as many that have opposing answers and justifications. The truth is...we have not yet been able to FULLY answer these questions. Until then...let your conscience be your guide and do not cast stones at your neighbor.

[Ben Kenobi]

What would the cost to society be if millions of unwanted children were let upon it?

We don't execute children because some believe the world is overpopulated. If folks truly believe that the world is overpopulated, why do they not commit suicide? It makes no sense to me. If you sincerely believe there are too many people - then killing yourself would benefit all of humanity.

What is the cost to the lives of women that are forced to have children they don't want?

Forced? Are you claiming every pregnant woman is raped?

Once we are smart enough to answer these questions in all their aspects, then we can begin to have a real debate on abortion. Until then, we must and should leave it to the conscience of the individual in a free society.

Your position assumes there is just one individual involved. If there are two individuals, then killing one cannot be justified.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Once we are smart enough to answer these questions in all their aspects, then we can begin to have a real debate on abortion. Until then, we must and should leave it to the conscience of the individual in a free society.

The problem with reducing this discussion to cost is that it revolves around when does human life begin. Cost is mostly irrelevant if a human life is there.

[PLATO]

As I said Ben...

I knew you would respond, but I hoped that you would take the thoughtful path. While the "truths" you know are solid in your mind, you have to recognize that others may have just as strongly held "truths" in theirs. Personally, I am against abortion. I believe as you do that there are innocent lives at stake. I do not believe that pounding people over the head with my belief will change theirs anymore than they could change yours. In the absence of perfect knowledge (which we both believe is only present in one being, correct?), then we have to defer to the type of society that we choose to live in. Certainly there are places in the world that would conform to your belief, but yet you choose to live in a free society. You must learn to respect the opinion of others. It is fine for you to state your case, but continually pounding away at others does not make you right or wrong, change their minds, or even make the debate more stimulating. I would even submit that "Judge not lest you be judged" is a relevant philosophical point for you to consider.

As far as my "position" is concerned, I can do nothing but accept what the laws of the county define as an individual. I have my personal beliefs and am happy to share them, but I certainly will not condem another for sharing theirs.

[PLATO]

The problem with reducing this discussion to cost is that it revolves around when does human life begin. Cost is mostly irrelevant if a human life is there.

I don't believe that we are using the same definition of costs. Hence why I say ALL aspects. There is much more than an economic cost to look at here. Your reaction does demonstrate how difficult it is to even quantify the question however.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The point is that any costs; economic, societal, etc., have no effect for those believing there is a human life on the line. After all there isn't a "letting them die" as actively going in an ending their life - which would be akin to murder to those who believe it is a life. There is no allowance of murder even if the costs in certain aspects may allow it (state sponsored murder is, of course, different).

[Sava]

I'm against abortion too. You won't ever see me getting one.

Well, except if I find out my kid is deaf or something. Those people don't deserve to live.