Snoopy contraception bet

[Aeson]

My religion (anti-gribblerism) rejects not taxing gribbler.

[Ben Kenobi]

Wish you took some more English classes, or at least some skills to indicate I never once referenced the USA

America was mentioned many times.

[kentonio]

Free exercise clause of the First Amendment to the US constitution says that American citizens have the right to practice their religion. Rejection of contraception is a core part of Catholicism, hence, forcing Catholics to pay for contraception is unconstitutional.

Doesn't matter how you dress it up. You can force it however you want, but defying an unconstitutional law is legitimate.

Good luck arresting every single practicing Catholic.

Hahaha, you dumbass! Via your idiotic logic, anything the US government does with tax money that runs contrary to any religious belief held by a US citizen would then become unconstitutional. Want to fund development of a new fighter plane? Sorry, you just forced the Amish to pay for technology. Those wars in the middle east? Sorry, you just forced American Muslims to contribute to wage war on other Muslims, clearly against their religion and therefore unconstitutional.

Seriously, stop being stupid please.

All 5 of which salvage the Bill, Obama has declared that Catholics must pay, which is in contravention of the free exercise clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution.

What is truly pathetic is that Obama actually caved and gave Catholics an exemption they absolutely did not deserve. What is truly ****ing hilarious is that even before the exemption no-one was being forced to actually use contraception. If the staff working in Catholic institutions were genuinely anti-contraception, there is absolutely nothing that requires insurance companies to actually provide it. The only time this becomes an issue at all is when workers at Catholic institutions want contraception. This is one of the biggest complete non-issues of all time.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...nd-the-church/

Some things are more valuable than things. There's a reason the 1st protects Free exercise.

In any case, I stand in solidarity with my Catholic brothers and sisters, and we will resist any attempt from the Obama regime to enforce the mandate.

We've already established that you sold out your beliefs for an easy life in America, so let's not pretend for a second that you have any honour.

[Wezil]

Why are some people so damn easy to troll?

[Ben Kenobi]

Hahaha, you dumbass! Via your idiotic logic, anything the US government does with tax money that runs contrary to any religious belief held by a US citizen would then become unconstitutional.

Not so. The Federal government does have constitutional obligations. National defense is a constitutional obligation of the federal government. As is border control and some things that the Obama regime doesn't like to spend money on.

Providing contraception is not a constitutional obligation of the federal government. Hence opposition to a federal mandate is constitutional and him forcing Catholics to pay falls afoul of the First amendment by attacking free exercise of Catholicism.

Seriously, stop being stupid please.

National defense is a constitutional obligation of the Federal government. Providing contraception is not.

What is truly pathetic is that Obama actually caved and gave Catholics an exemption they absolutely did not deserve.

Umm, no, he didn't. Just the opposite.

If the staff working in Catholic institutions were genuinely anti-contraception, there is absolutely nothing that requires insurance companies to actually provide it.

Again, yes, there is. The federal government requires that the plans include contraception (as well as some aboritifacients too), for that matter.

You need to read up on this issue because you are misinformed.

The only time this becomes an issue at all is when workers at Catholic institutions want contraception. This is one of the biggest complete non-issues of all time.

Yeah, like Catholic schools (part of the Catholic mission), Catholic hospitals, (part of the Catholic mission), etc. Free exercise doesn't have a clause saying that the Free exercise of some but not others isn't protected.

We've already established that you sold out your beliefs for an easy life in America, so let's not pretend for a second that you have any honour.

Given as Canada forced me to pay for abortion and contraception, **** Canada.

[kentonio]

Not so. The Federal government does have constitutional obligations. National defense is a constitutional obligation of the federal government.

Maintaining a standing army was something the founders were hugely against. Invading foreign nations is not national defense.


Umm, no, he didn't. Just the opposite.

Again, yes, there is. The federal government requires that the plans include contraception (as well as some aboritifacients too), for that matter.

There is a huge difference between a plan including contraception and the people who have that plan actually having to use the item.

You need to read up on this issue because you are misinformed.

Read the link I posted, it shows exactly why you are wrong and stupid.

Yeah, like Catholic schools (part of the Catholic mission), Catholic hospitals, (part of the Catholic mission), etc. Free exercise doesn't have a clause saying that the Free exercise of some but not others isn't protected.

Catholic schools and hospitals employ non-Catholic people too. Why should you be allowed to prevent those peoples insurance covering them for things they need?

Given as Canada forced me to pay for abortion and contraception, **** Canada.

You cared just enough to move to another country that does the same. **** you.

[kentonio]

DP

[Ben Kenobi]

Maintaining a standing army was something the founders were hugely against. Invading foreign nations is not national defense.

The founders also supported the second amendment, the right to own firearms. Do you support that?

There is a huge difference between a plan including contraception and the people who have that plan actually having to use the item.

You stated, "we did not have to buy contraception." You are wrong. We are being forced to buy plans that include contraception. If they had a plan that didn't have contraception, this would never have been an issue.

Either section out contraception or section out Catholics. People should be able to get a healthcare plan that suits what *they* want. One size does not fit all.

Catholic schools and hospitals employ non-Catholic people too. Why should you be allowed to prevent those peoples insurance covering them for things they need?

Then they can find another job which does. You work for the Church, you're supposed to follow the rules. If you're not going to follow the rules, then find another job.

You cared just enough to move to another country that does the same. **** you.

You just can't accept that someone would leave over this issue. You think everyone's just going to lie down and put up with your bull****.

[kentonio]

The founders also supported the second amendment, the right to own firearms. Do you support that?

If America didn't have a standing army and relied on organized militia for its defense, then absolutely.

You stated, "we did not have to buy contraception." You are wrong. We are beingforced to buy plans that include contraception. If they had a plan that didn't have contraception, this would never have been an issue.

I did not state that at all you ****ing liar. If you're going to use quote marks then quote accurately. I said people do not have to use contraception. I.E. it wouldn't matter a damn whether a plan offered it as coverage or not, if Catholics didn't actually use it. Trying to deny non-Catholic employees that coverage on their health plans however is despicable and why you get so much **** about this.

Either section out contraception or section out Catholics. People should be able to get a healthcare plan that suits what *they* want. One size does not fit all.

99% of Catholics have used contraception. Why exactly should Catholic institutions be able to deny those people (and the many non-Catholic employees) the option of something that important? What about what *they* want?

Then they can find another job which does. You work for the Church, you're supposed to follow the rules. If you're not going to follow the rules, then find another job.

99% of Catholics have used contraception. You should immediately fire 99% of all Catholic employees, no?

You just can't accept that someone would leave over this issue. You think everyone's just going to lie down and put up with your bull****.

You left to move to a country that does basically the same thing. You lay down like a mutt and sold your values for cash and an easy life. Sad really..

[kentonio]

JM

[Elok]

Why are some people so damn easy to troll?

Beats me. Feel free to threadjack/thread****.

[Ben Kenobi]

If America didn't have a standing army and relied on organized militia for its defense, then absolutely.

Gee, that's not what the constitution says... It says that Americans have the same right to own firearms as they do to speak.

Like I said, you don't really believe the American consitution is authoritative.

I did not state that at all you ****ing liar.

Yes, you did. Backtrack, backtrack, backtrack.

it wouldn't matter a damn whether a plan offered it as coverage or not

Money is fungible. So yes, it does matter. That's why you're fighting so hard to force other people to pay for what you want.

Trying to deny non-Catholic employees

If non-Catholic employees are unhappy with working for the Church, then perhaps they should seek employment elsewhere.

99% of Catholics have used contraception.

Ooh. [[Citation needed]]

A good quarter of Catholics are under 20. Are you saying that 95 percent of Catholic children aged 15 and under have used contraception?

Why exactly should Catholic institutions be able to deny those people (and the many non-Catholic employees) the option of something that important?

Again, if they don't want to follow the rules that Catholic employers insist upon, then they need to find employment elsewhere.

What about what *they* want?

What about their contract? Their contract explicitly states (in the case of teachers), that they are to uphold the moral standards of the Catholic church. Once again, if you don't like working for the Church, work for someone else.

99% of Catholics have used contraception.

[[Citation needed]]

You should immediately fire 99% of all Catholic employees, no?

If people are unhappy following the rules, then they should work for someone else and let the folks who are happy following the rules get better jobs and more work.

You left to move to a country that does basically the same thing. You lay down like a mutt and sold your values for cash and an easy life. Sad really..

The standard of living in Texas is far higher than in Canada. However, I left so that I could get a good job working for the Catholic church and not have to pay for abortion like BC forced me to do.

As I said earlier, Obamacare was not the law of the land when I moved.

[Wezil]

Beats me. Feel free to threadjack/thread****.

No point. This thread is beyond redemption.

[kentonio]

Gee, that's not what the constitution says... It says that Americans have the same right to own firearms as they do to speak.

Like I said, you don't really believe the American consitution is authoritative.

I've said before that I think America has a ridiculous cult worship approach to the constitution and the founders personally. This imho is extremely damaging to America as it stands in the way of shaping an America that suits its current needs, rather than the needs of centuries ago.

It is in equal parts funny and sad that people like you can squawk about what the constitution 'says' while paying no attention to why certain things were added or written in the way they were. The men who wrote the constitution didn't think guns were some god given right, they just recognized the freedom they guaranteed in THAT time. Something which is now laughable in our time.

Yes, you did. Backtrack, backtrack, backtrack.

This is a forum, all my words are still here. Go quote EXACTLY where I said that, and bear in mind I will check the original post.

Ooh. [[Citation needed]]

A good quarter of Catholics are under 20. Are you saying that 95 percent of Catholic children aged 15 and under have used contraception?

I just looked it up, it's actually 98% of sexually active Catholic women. I'm sure if you try really hard you can pretend that means you won something.

http://www.livescience.com/13708-cat...aceptives.html

Again, if they don't want to follow the rules that Catholic employers insist upon, then they need to find employment elsewhere.

You should clearly immediate fire 98% of Catholic women employees. There's a pretty reasonable chance that those women were having sex with a roughly equal number of men too, so you should probably fire 98% of Catholic male employees too. I wonder how you're intending to run all those Catholic institutions when you only have 2% of adult Catholics to recruit from?

The standard of living in Texas is far higher than in Canada. However, I left so that I could get a good job working for the Catholic church and not have to pay for abortion like BC forced me to do.

As I said earlier, Obamacare was not the law of the land when I moved.

STFU liar, I already told you the federal government funded PP since 1970. Stop trying to blame the black guy for your moral weakness.

[Wezil]

One more post Ken. You've almost got him.